17 Jun 2016 19:14:10
red sox get:
gray

oakland get:
joe kelly, marrero, devers #2 prospects, kopach # 5 prospect

sox get a top of the rotation starter they need to make a deep run and can afford to unload some prospects.

oakland gets younger pieces to build around for their rebuild.

1.) 17 Jun 2016
17 Jun 2016 19:54:07
Not enough for Gray. Not anywhere close to enough.

2.) 17 Jun 2016
17 Jun 2016 20:04:31
For gray, the Red Sox will be giving up, Benintendi, Espinoza, and two more of the Red Sox top 6 prospects. Not entirely sure, but I believe gray is still in his pre arb years. So basically, a kings ransom and then some for an ace who will be back to his previous form before too long.

3.) 17 Jun 2016
17 Jun 2016 21:13:37
yah kind of bad after seeing it agian idk i think a package of devers, beintendi, kopach is a good base sox will most likely have to add since it will take a kings ransom to get a top end pitcher based on the market.

4.) 18 Jun 2016
17 Jun 2016 22:23:02
Exactly, base of Benintendi, Espinosa, Devers, and 2-3 filler prospects.

5.) 18 Jun 2016
18 Jun 2016 04:25:26
Okay, guys, let me make this clear.

Sonny Gray is not Clayton Kershaw. He is not Chris Sale. He is not Madison Bumgarner. He is not a stud No. 1 SP. Check his numbers; they've gotten worse over the last couple of seasons as teams have figured him out to some degree.

He's a good MLB starter. Nothing more.

Just because Arizona got stupid paying for Shelby Miller doesn't mean other teams will.

6.) 18 Jun 2016
18 Jun 2016 04:37:47
Red Sox Guy, the free agent pitching class is so bad next year, Rich Hill could be the best starter available, so any pitchers value increases drastically in terms of trade value, especially gray who hasn't even hit arbitration yet. And yes, Gray very much is a number one pitcher. His FIP and xFIP are a little higher than you would like, but he has still been extremely effective the past couple years.

7.) 18 Jun 2016
18 Jun 2016 05:38:35
Red Sox, no one said he was Kershaw, Sale, or Bumgarner. You have no argument so you reduce ours to absurd arguments you crafted so you could win.

Gray is still pre-arb. He's so young and has so few miles on the arm, as well as cheap and controllable.

For someone so smart, you have a really hard time figuring out that Gray's value is more in his contract status and upside than anything else.

8.) 18 Jun 2016
18 Jun 2016 05:40:32
Also, where are you getting that his numbers get worst every year? Last year was his best season and this year he has clearly been dealing with injuries.

The guy is an elite pitcher. I'm pretty sure you might be the only person who doesn't see it.

9.) 18 Jun 2016
18 Jun 2016 14:25:59
You lost me at Joe Kelly.

10.) 18 Jun 2016
18 Jun 2016 15:06:46
No, I said he is a good MLB starter. On that we agree.

I am speaking primarily of Gray's ability to miss bats, when I say his numbers have gotten worse. In 2013, he struck out 9.4 batters per 9 innings. It has went down in the last few years (7.5 and 7.3) to 7.2 this year. His K/ BB ratio has also regressed, from 3.35 to 1.96. To be clear, his ERA and most other stats have been pretty good until this year.

Gray is good. He would be a great addition to the Sox. Slotting him in between Price and Porcello would give the Sox a pretty nice front three for the season and the playoffs. I would love to get him. And, his contract and age are both big plusses, which is to what you are alluding.

However, giving up several pieces of the future (this proposal said Devers, Marrero and Kopach, plus Kelly) for Kelly is a frightening prospect. We already did that for Kimbrel; I don't want to do it again. It would have been easy to try to obtain help in the past by giving up Mookie Betts, Jackie Bradley Jr., or Xander Bogaerts. Can you imagine the Sox without those guys as our future? We gave up Anthony Rizzo too. How would he look in the lineup instead of Panda or HanRam?

Also, with his diminished ability to miss bats, Gray probably would not fare as well in Boston. There is a big difference between Fenway and O. co Coliseum. Gray, though very good, would probably not be as effective there.

No, guys, I am not trying to win anything; I am hoping the Red Sox can win several titles over the next 15 years. If they can obtain Gray for a package such as Kelly, Swihart and Benintendi, I am all for it. But if it costs us Devers and Marrero and Benintendi and Anderson Espinoza to get Gray, then I say no. Find another trade partner. Gray is good, but not worth a package that mortgages the future.

Thanks for reading. Hope this provides clarity.

11.) 18 Jun 2016
18 Jun 2016 20:50:03
Gray is one of the best young pitchers in the game.

His contract situation only sweetens it. Enjoy Julio Teheran who is more expensive and 10x worse. Even there, you have to mortgage the future.