04 Jan 2017 22:03:34
Dodgers want stability and ability at 2B. Would like a # ( 2 +) SP.

Dodgers get Danny Salazar and Jason Kipnis (both with four years of control) .

Indians get Julio Urias, Yasiel Puig and Cody Bellinger.


Hmmm? .

1.) 04 Jan 2017
04 Jan 2017 22:14:52
Pretty bad my man.

2.) 04 Jan 2017
04 Jan 2017 22:42:44
Not sure why the Indians would want this. Four years of Kipnis is more valuable than the entire package offered.

3.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 00:13:05
Urias? Come on guys he made it to the Majors as a 19 year old and pitched well. I feel people are forgetting how elite this guy is.

4.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 01:32:12
Geronimo, I don't think this is as bad as the first two comments indicate.

Is it good? Not really. The Dodgers have plenty of starting pitching already, with Kershaw-Hill-Maeda-Kazmir-Urias-McCarthy-DeLeon a kaleidoscope of talent, youth, experience and potential. Salazar is, of course, better than all but Kershaw, but LA's rotation and depth is better than most teams right now, and good enough to contend. Kipnis would be nice, but they won't give up Urias and Bellinger to get him.

Cleveland's best asset is its rotation. Salazar is a big part of that. They just signed EE and have Santana, so Bellinger would not be a great fit. Trading Kipnis would create a pretty big hole to fill.

Point is, I think this is relatively fair, but is not really a good fit for either team.

5.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 02:36:52
Zimmer. thank you.

6.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 03:03:14
Urias and two wild cards for two REALLY, REALLY good players.

Kipnis is an MVP caliber player and Salazar has tons of team control left. This is one-sided to LA.

7.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 05:47:34
That package wouldn't land the Dodgers Salazar alone. And what makes you think the Indians would trade Kipnis?

8.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 13:16:00
So Batman, your saying that Cleveland wouldn't trade Salazar for:

Puig- (if Brantley can't go, they could use him, could turn out to be an all-star) has the tools to anyway.

Bellanger-Top 1 or 2 first base prospects in baseball. Could be valuable next year if EE battles injuries and might have to shift to DH at some point. Regardless he would be EE's replacement in 3 years

Urias-a 20 year old who has already established himself as a ready now pitcher and started game 4 of the NLCS.

Salazar is really good, but he ain't smoking as good of stuff as you are!

9.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 14:03:29
Not Puig no, I would say throw one or two more prospects in for Salazar and they would have a deal.

10.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 14:09:32
Stirring this pot a wee bit more.

The Kipnis/ Puig salary exchange for the 2017 season favors the Dodgers by about $ 3MM. (Puig @ 8.6 MM - $ 6 MM = 2.6 MM) adding + .5 MM lux tax making this a net $ 3 MM saving or about half of Kipnis' contract. The 2018 contract would be a wash, no advantage to either side. Puig also fits as a corner OF'er in the event the surgery that Brantley had, the second surgery, will take more time to fully recover from. Brantley is currently dry swinging and experiencing no pain and progressing quite nicely. The issues is with his non-throwing shoulder. so defensively, he'll be okay. He's entering into the penultimate year of his contract.

Bellinger is currently playing OF in the Dodgers minor league system. and is said to be quite adept. even being able to cover CF, if needed. EE is a 1B / DH for three years, possibly a fourth. Santana's contract is over in ten months. Tito Francona LOVES versatility and w/ Bellinger being capable as a corner OF'er, some CF. and GG level defense at 1B. This is a perfect fit both on the field and fiscally.

Salazar and Urias are both elite level talent that would otherwise cancel. Both are enormously inexpensive. The fact that Urias is a lefty is a benefit to the Indians.

This isn't a bad deal. just one that neither side would want to make when emotions become part of the decision.

Thoughts?

11.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 15:55:29
Geronimo, you've always been a smart baseball guy on this site, so I can appreciate the thought.

But at this point, 4 years of Kipnis and 4 years of Salazar is SIGNIFICANTLY more valuable than Urias, Puig, and Bellinger.

In the past 4 seasons, Kipnis and Salazar have put up a combined 23.6 WAR, 8.7 from Salazar and 14.9 from Kipnis, that's almost 4 WAR between the two of them each year, and that's with Salazar not getting a ton of innings in that span. I doubt this package brings 4 WAR a season between the three of them.

The Indians have a brilliant front office. They aren't trading 4 WAR for a bunch of lottery tickets.

12.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 20:39:10
The idea is predicated on the overall needs of both clubs.

it's easy to see that the Dodgers would be thrilled to get four years of Kipnis and his entire game. The addition of Salazar is the cherry on top and would be well received by the fans of the boys of summer.

By the same measure, the Indians are looking at the outfield that has Doctor Smooth (Michael Brantley) as an uncertain contributor in 2017. The Indians have three or four guys who can play either or both 2B and 3B. Jose Ramirez is the best second baseman that doesn't play the spot. Both Yandy Diaz and Giovanny Urshela are third basemen (Urshela will challenge even Arendao defensively at 3B) and can play 2B. Yandy also plays c-OF'er. IOW, plenty of guys who can cover both 2B and 3B. not many who can play the OF at the level of Yasiel or even Bellinger.

So the question becomes. are the Indians better in 2017 keeping Salazar/ Kipnis. or is the lure of 10 + years of control of Urias/ Bellinger plus a couple seasons of Yasiel better for the club now and into the future.

The emotional side of the equation is simple. the Indians never make that deal. the IQ side of the argument pauses and thinks about it. perhaps more than a little.

. and you're right. I am brilliant. or did you just say smart. that's one of those words that can have more than a single meaning. ya know? .

13.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 21:00:23
"So the question becomes. are the Indians better in 2017 keeping Salazar/ Kipnis. or is the lure of 10 + years of control of Urias/ Bellinger plus a couple seasons of Yasiel better for the club now and into the future. "

Anyone with any baseball sense would tell you that 8 years of surety in Salazar + Kipnis is FAR better than a bunch of question marks in Urias, Bellinger, and Puig.

Will Urias actually be as dominant as they say? Will he get arm injuries, especially without a ton of development in the minors? They really rushed him to the bigs.

I doubt Urias is all that much of an improvement from a healthy Danny Salazar, who is really, really good.

Will Puig be 2013 Puig or will he be the awful player we've seen the past few seasons? Do you want to move a strong clubhouse guy in Kipnis for a cancer in Puig?

What are you getting from Bellinger? At this point, it's a complete lottery ticket.

Again, you're giving up 6 WAR (my math in the last post was wrong) by giving up Kipnis and Salazar, and that's with Salazar not healthy. Are you reasonably getting 6-8 WAR out of that group coming back? Very unlikely. Keep the guys you have and be content.

14.) 05 Jan 2017
05 Jan 2017 21:56:24
It just wouldn't happen for Cleveland because they really are in win now mode although most of their contributing pieces are still young. But the EE signing was a little unusual.

Dodgers are always in win now mode and will always have the resources to do so.

Really is a fairly good trade though. Salazar's health may factor into the equation a bit.