19 Jun 2017 01:37:03
Houston: Jose Quintana


Chicago(AL): Francis Martes, Kyle Tucker, J.D Davis and Teoscar Hernandez

1.) 19 Jun 2017
19 Jun 2017 14:27:37
Did you wait for his 1 good start before posting this nonsense? Top 2 prospects PLUS Hernandez and 3B with over.900 OPS in AA. Maybe when he gets his ERA under 5 I will stop laughing. Chisox should have traded him before he sucked this season. Solid pitcher, but not a star.

2.) 19 Jun 2017
19 Jun 2017 17:54:35
His one good start this year? Q has 14 starts this year and if you take away his bottom two performances his era is 3.69.

Has he gotten off to a rough start? Yeah. But you're going to tell me the 2-3 starts where he got knocked around trumps a 3 year track record of consistent top tier WAR, ERA, IP, GO/ FO, WHIP numbers?

If were going to be judging pitchers by their first 3 months, I take it Verlander, Cueto, Harvey, Teheran, Cole and Estrada are bums too then?

3.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 00:49:15
Time to show how full of rubbish you are, Drake. You state that "2 or 3 starts where he got knocked around. " In April he had 5 starts with an ERA of 5.22. In May he had 6 starts with an ERA of 5.91. That's 11 starts with an ERA of over 5.5 As for your ridiculous list of struggling pitchers- Verlander is former ROY, CY Young and MVP winner who still has lower ERA than Q by half a run. Cueto is Series champ, 2x All-star (Q has 1) AND still has ERA lower by half run. Harvey had major surgery-wow Q is better than him! Every other pitcher listed has better ERA than Q. Cole, Estrada more than half run and Teheran quarter run. Remember Q has 1 All-star appearance. Never pitcher of the week, or month, or Cy Young or anything. Everyone listed has at least 1 of those Awards. So again, Q is 6 yr pitcher with 1 All-star and NOTHING else. I guess when you are second class citizens in town and perennially in last place you have time to dream about visions of grandeur. BTW-you were trying to peddle this same bullshit over the winter and he's STILL a Chisox. OVERRATED BETTER THAN AVERAGE PITCHER THAT"S IT! Have fun watching his value drop and drop!

4.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 02:42:32
As combative as the above post is mitchsam's post is he is absolutely right here. Dude he has been worse than an injured Felix Hernandez man. Who is looking like he is starting to fall off a cliff. Quintana is just not the piece that a lot of people claimed he was. Middle of the rotation starter should have been sold hen the rebuild started. Front office made a mistake not selling when he had a decent price tag.

5.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 14:20:10
I'm not sure what's worse: mitchsam using ERA to value pitchers or Mitchsam using 2 months worth of ERA to value pitchers.

6.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 14:45:37
marinermark, I can see where his era would point to him "falling off" and what else do you see that makes you come to that conclusion? Seriously asking. My point is that a guy who over the last 3 years who ranks:

9th in War
8th in IP
15th in FIP
25th in ERA
33rd in K/ BB%
32nd in SIERA

Doesn't scream "middle of the rotation starter" starter to me.

His contract still has 4.5 years of control at less than 9 million a year. Would they have gotten more for him in November? Possibly. But I still think he demands two top 50 prospects, or close to it, as headliners.

7.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 18:49:26
Drake-again you don't get it. Aside from WAR and IP which us directly attributed to his ability to stay healthy and make his starts, which is great, he still a middle of the rotation starter (2 or 3.) Where does he excel? Forget all your crazy stats-here's 1 you can't argue with-prior to '17-which has been horrible-his average WAR is 4.1. According to baseballreference a 5.0 is an Allstar. This mean that he is a #2 or #3 starter. This is what marinermark and I are trying to get across to you. He is a #2 pitcher who is pitching like a #4 pitcher this year. That's why mariner posted"middle of the rotation starter. " If you can't see this, you will constantly be regarded as a delusional White Sox "homer. " No way they get 2 Top 50 prospects. In all fairness, taking in consideration his favorable contract along with his steady healthy stability, he is worth 1 Top 50, borderline Top 100 and flyer on a low minor leaguer with upside. That is more than fair. Curious to see if marinermark (or others) agree.

8.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 19:12:41
statbook- isn't it funny that you rip me for using ERA as a stat to measure pitching when the only stat that Quintana is top 10 in last 5 years is ERA. Again what stat has Quintana excelled in the last five years. Educate me-why is Quintana a #1 pitcher-an ace? Based on what. Can't wait to see your delusional response. What team do you follow? PLEASE reply.

9.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 19:21:46
I'm sure the 2 top 50 prospects were in line with what they asked for in the offseason and no one wanted to make that trade. When it's his day in the rotation are you confident Chicago will win? Considering how he has pitched this season it's unlikely you're that confident in him. I would probably agree a top 100 and a flyer would be fair for him but at the deadline when teams get a little more desperate and it not looking like there are a ton of starters available and quite a few teams needing starting pitching help the price will likely be more than that. I'd consider it an overpay. As long as it isn't Seattle doing it I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

10.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 20:43:21
Marinermark, I have confidence the Chisox will lose every game they play because their roster is so bad lol. In all seriousness tho, the asking price was
Musgrove, kyle tucker, and Martes this past offseason.

I'm a few credits shy of my degree in baseball management but I don't think it dropped to a single top 100 prospect based on 14 shaky starts.

Anyways, agree to disagree. Guess we'll have to wait and see in the next few months what his return is.

11.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 21:47:59
Mitchsam, from 2012-2016, Quintana is 12th in WAR amongst all pitchers. Of all those in the top 15, Quintana and Bumgarner are the only ones with reasonable contracts.

Look at what the Rangers gave up for Hamels who had (has) a massive contract and similar numbers in the same span.

Quintana is the best value pitcher on the trade block, by a long ways.

12.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 21:50:26
Also, mitch, I never said he was an ace. I just laugh ghat you condescend and act all arrogant and then cite ERA as means of pitching value/ talent.

No one in baseball uses ERA to value a pitcher. Literally zero teams/ scouts. If you want to act better than everyone, at least show us you know the basics.

13.) 20 Jun 2017
20 Jun 2017 22:53:35
See when Seattle was that bad at least we had the Felix Hernandez starts. I always expected to win those games. Miraculously we still lost plenty of games 1-0. Felix was who I was referring to falling off a cliff, rereading my post that was not that clear. My arguement is that he isn't really an ace. If the asking price is true that price is insane to me and just can't comprehend that he is worth that much so I can see why the deal didn't get done. On a side note I hope they can find a way to make that deal because down with the Astros and their insane farm system.

14.) 21 Jun 2017
21 Jun 2017 02:27:32
Stat-maybe you don't understand WAR. Quintana has consistently made all of his starts. That means he can accumulate more=higher WAR. Players are going to pass Trout in WAR because he is hurt. Again, he averages 4.1 WAR/ season-which is good but not All-star level. If you could check on where he ranks each year you would see he never is in Top 10 for year. By staying healthy he has ACCUMULATED WAR to place high on your list. All I'm trying to say is that Q is a good solid #2 or #3 pitcher who stays healthy. there is a lot of value in that. But when delusional posters like Drake try to pass him off as an ace and thinks that the Sox can get a ridiculous pkg for him, I just state my opinion. When others agree with me, he gets insulted and tries bringing in Sabrmetrics that just reinforce my view. NEVER an elite pitcher. I do not see where he is "special. " If you see something to the contrary-I would love to see it.

15.) 21 Jun 2017
21 Jun 2017 02:42:57
Stat-just checked on Hamels trade in '14. You stated that Hamels and Q had similar numbers. The Rangers gave up prospect #30 and prospect #83 plus other marginal prospects. As you can see by my earlier post that Q was worth Top 50 and Top #100 prospects plus marginal prospects with upside. That is exactly what Phils got for Hamels. So essentially you agree with my evaluation. My only problem is when Drake overvalues Q and wanted Pirates, Astros or Yanks 3 prospects in Top 50-at least. Again, just calling out Drake with his ridiculous trade posts.

16.) 21 Jun 2017
21 Jun 2017 13:18:25
"Maybe you don't understand WAR" as he gives an explanation that is completely wrong and misunderstands WAR. Seriously, the irony is too much for me. You're saying he's only accumulatinging WAR because he plays a lot? GTFO with that nonsense. Stop calling people delusional, because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

As for the trade comparison, the Rangers also took on around $70M of Hamels' contract in that trade, and yet they have up some pretty significant pieces (perhaps the best piece was one of those "marginal prospects" in Eickhoff) . Quintana's ridiculously team-friendly contract will draw a hefty price tag, as will the competition for starting pitchers. I'd say two top 50 prospects plus some organizational fodder OR a top, young MLB piece would be more than plenty. Heck, Matt Moore drew more than he should have, and he's way worse than Quintana.

17.) 22 Jun 2017
22 Jun 2017 00:21:37
You guys need to get a room.