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23 Dec 2017 19:02:06
Angels receive:
Avsail Garcia and James Shields

White sox receive:
Kaleb Cowart, Luis valbuena, Cam Bedrosian, and Nate Smith


1.) 23 Dec 2017 22:53:09
Where would Garcia play with Upton, Trout, and Calhoun in the outfield and a guy making 27 million next year at DH?

2.) 24 Dec 2017 15:34:06
White Sox hang up laughing.

3.) 25 Dec 2017 16:54:39
3 controllable MLB contracts for Garcia and Shields would lead Rick Hahn to hang up laughing?

He really is worse than I thought.

4.) 25 Dec 2017 21:50:39
Hahaha. No one cares if you're controllable if you are not good.

Cowart is a career .197 hitter. Smith is a 26-Year-old LHP in AA that pitched a total of 14 innings last year and has "a lack of plus stuff with a low ceiling". Valbuena hit .199 last year and is essentially a bench piece that would be on a team that is not going to compete in 2018, and Bedrosian is somewhat intriguing because of upside and good stuff but is nowhere near enough to headline for Garcia and Sheilds.

Again, the White Sox hang up the phone LAUGHING.

5.) 25 Dec 2017 23:54:55
You realize that a bag of dog rubbish is too much for James Shields, right? (And yet Hahn traded away an elite prospect to get him, go figure) . His inclusion into the trade makes the return far worse.

Also, nice job with the selective stats. You couldn’t even take note of the wRC+ on the guys you listed. It’s not league average, but it’s not putrid. And it’s far better than anything the White Sox would actually get in a dump of James Shirlds.

6.) 25 Dec 2017 23:57:58
And if a rebuilding team is turning down players simply on batting average, than Hahn is terrible.

You’re looking for long-term value and players you can use and trade later, you look for their skillset, not their stats. What a putrid response.

7.) 26 Dec 2017 06:19:36
First of all the trade is for Shields AND Avi Garcia. Therefore, the trade is not a salary dump of Shields - LA is getting an all-star OF. Also, the Sox have literally zero incentive to get rid of Shields at this point. Literally zero. If they were to move him, as if anyone would want him, they would have to pay virtually all (if not all) of his entire salary. His role now is to mentor the young pitchers as a well respected and accomplished veteran who eats innings on a sub-par, rebuilding team.

I'm sure Hahn doesn't turn down players simply on batting average. I just didn't think I had to explicitly draw out why these players aren't any good, I guess I thought you were intuitive enough to figure that out on your own but here you go:

Valbuena, according to FanGraphs would be labeled as a "scrub" based on his 2017 season (sub-1 WAR) . He is an aging, all-or-nothing corner infielder who is best suited not to play every day and who the Sox would have zero use for. They have Abreu, Davidson, Yolmer Sanchez, Casey Gillaspie, Palka, etc for the corners. He is a below average defender (-2.88 UZR since 2014) and had a below average wRC+ (94) last year as well. Paying him for another 2 years at $8+ Million/ Year? Hard pass.

Again, Nate Smith is a 26-Year-old LHP in AA that pitched a total of 14 innings last year and has "a lack of plus stuff with a low ceiling". In his best full season, he had a 4.61 FIP. He has a 45 FV. No true impressive pitch/ skillset and isn't very projectable based on basic scouting.

Bedrosian is projectable with pretty good stuff that would be in a bullpen that definitely has room for help. However, there is no way that he is the headliner for Avi Garcia. He still walks a pretty high amount of hitters as well.

Finally, if you can actually sell Kaleb Cowart to a team, you need a major league front office job immediatley. There is a reason LA just went out and got Cozart. In the past 3 years, he has gotten an opportunity to take the 3B job in LA and has failed miserably each time. In 2016, he had a WRC+ of 13. Yes, 13 in almost 100 PAs. Last year he peaked at a wRC+ of 89 with a career-high .301 wOBA. He also will play most of 2018 at 26 years old. He is barely good enough to be a depth piece in AAA.

I could literally have any of those guys controlled for 15 years, but it doesn't matter because they are not very good, nor are they very projectable at all. That's not how the controllability commanding value idea works. It's not even in the ballpark of a package to acquire an OF coming off an all-star season. If Shields would hurt the return of a trade, Hahn would simply take him out bc they have no reason to trade him. They are not in any kind of money crunch this season.

At this point, I think you just enjoy picking arguments with me. You're nowhere close here. "Putrid"

8.) 26 Dec 2017 14:11:55
13 wRC+ to 89 in ‘17. That’s what folks in the business call “improvement”. And improvement of a significant level. The Angels will likely stash Cowart in AAA, hone in onthe things he improved upon and try him again in 2019 when Kinsler walks. We saw remarkable progress and improvement in 2017.

Cowart is by no means amazing. He’s not a future MVP, but if you think anyone is giving up future MVPs for a pitcher whose ERA matched his xFIP at over 5, and a guy who no one has any clue what his regression will look like, you’re out of you’re mind.

And you’re right, Garcia on his own would draw something slightly better. But that wasn’t the trade being discussed. Draw up one without Shields and then we can discuss that.

9.) 26 Dec 2017 14:34:36
Again, I’d like to see what you think Garcia would be traded for.

I’d bet almost anything it’s for a package significantly less than you think. Probably 2-3 average prospects with upside. No one is trading big pieces for the guy with one of the largest deviations from BABIP to xBABIP in the HISTORY of baseball.

10.) 26 Dec 2017 17:03:19
When you have a wRC+ of 13, the only place you can really go is up. FanGraphs starts the "awful" part of the scale at 60. Yes, he went up to 89 which is not even a league average player. The Sox are going to be in a 40-man roster crunch anyway over the next few years, so please explain to me why Cowart would make any sense for them given also who they currently have at the corners. He would probably be DFA before the end of the offseason. Don't overthink it, he holds very little to no trade value and isn't really a prospect anymore.

If James Shields were to be traded anywhere this offseason, it would be because a team actually wants him and thinks he could contribute to their team. There is no scenario where he is added to a trade in which he diminishes the return because the White Sox do not need to move his money and he holds value in the clubhouse given the makeup of the rest of the rotation. I'm not saying Shields is useful on the mound at all, I don't care about his FIP because the Sox really don't either. If they did, he would have already been DFA.

I agree that Garcia's trade value is tricky, but there have been 5-6 teams that have been at least somewhat interested. I think he is more likely to open the season in Chicago and if he has a first half with a wOBA north of say, .350 again, then I think the complete fluke season theory goes out the window and his value increases to a point where it's worthwhile to trade him at the deadline.

In a trade where the Sox get Nate Smith, Bedrosian, and Kaleb freakin' Cowart AND have to pay Valbuena for 2 more years at $8+MM, Hahn would just stand pat and trade him at the deadline, next offseason, or even just hold him for the remainder of his contract.

I stand by my original comment that Rick and the Sox hang up laughing.

11.) 26 Dec 2017 17:49:02
I don’t care what the White Sox actually need. My point was, getting anything of value for a trade where Shields in added isn’t happening.

It’d be more like your favorite scenario: the White Sox add a legitimate prospect just to move him. Kaleb Cowart obviously wouldn’t go in a trade for Garcia, but let’s not pretend he’s garbage.

The White Sox laughing at anyone willing to givethem something for Shields would be a monstrously stupid thing to do.

12.) 26 Dec 2017 19:36:04
For the 3rd time. They would get something of value for Sheilds because the only way they would trade him would be if someone was offering a mid-level piece, otherwise, they have zero incentive to trade him. Absolutely none. They'll be fine with this 5.00 FIP for a couple months, give him his $11MM, and say happy trails.

If you really want to continue to debate me that Cowart is not garbage and that he is just a "scrub" or a really bad major leaguer, I'll concede that to you if you believe it. There are probably 100+ 3Bs I would take over him. A 13 wRC+ is almost hard to do.

For James Shields, I would not take Cowart and probably not Cowart and Smith. The value of Shields is no longer "big game James", it's his veteran presence in the rotation, more specifically in spring training and in the beginning of the season. He probably is released before the end of the season.

"It’d be more like your favorite scenario: the White Sox add a legitimate prospect just to move him. "

Never in a million years. Say it with me buddy - "ZERO INCENTIVE TO TRADE JAMES SHIELDS"

13.) 26 Dec 2017 19:47:15
You wouldn’t take Cowart for Shields? I’d take a semi-broken vending machine for the poor sap.

Obviously, the White Sox have zero incentive to move him. But just as obvious, no team has any incentive to trade for him. Except the White Sox, who for some reason thought they needed him.

I guess giving up Tatis, Jr is worth the veteran presence.

14.) 26 Dec 2017 19:49:42
And if Rick Hahn is turning down trade offers for Shields, I doubt he’d have a job next winter.

But if Reinsdorf is okay with paying players to not play, more power to him. I bet you if there’s a team stupid enough to offer something, Shields will be on the move. Literally zero professional teams want him.

15.) 26 Dec 2017 22:08:19
With the power of retrospect, it's easy for you to stand on your pedestal and act like you knew how bad Shields was going to turn out and how Tatis would break out in 2017. Everyone and their mom was saying how much of a steal it was for the Sox at the time because no one had Tatis in their top 250 prospects. Looking back it was a bad deal as they tried to salvage for the fact that their "best record in baseball" start slipped away. It's not confirmed, but the word was that Kenny Williams had wanted Shields back in his time with the Rays and he was the one that really pushed for the acquisition. He has a history of trading for vets out of their primes (See: Manny Ramirez, Ken Griffey Jr, etc. )

If a decent young pitcher is offered for Shields, then yes, they would probably move him. I'm almost 100% certain that if the Angels offered Cowart for Shields, the Sox would turn that down. Cowart would have to pass through waivers as he would not be added to the 40 man and would probably end up being the AA third baseman. Combine that with the fact that then they would have to sign another veteran SP to take the place of Shields (then already probably need 2 SPs) while probably still paying virtually all of the $11MM owed to him - not very smart.

16.) 26 Dec 2017 23:49:17
Shields was not good prior to joining the White Sox. So it's not like a Matt Moore situation where the Giants acquired him and he just was absolutely horrible after being slightly good in Tampa Bay. He was downright awful when the Padres moved him. If you couldn't see that he was bad in a pitcher's ballpark, there wasn't a chance he'd be good in a hitters park. He was BAD.

So yes, this is obviously in retrospect, but at the same time, you should have scouts around you telling you not to trade guys with upside. Tatis has always had tremendous upside.

As far as the Shields offer, I PROMISE you, if they are offered an MLB-ready player for Shields, they take it. I bet you they DFA the poor guy in April, and will likely take whatever they can get. Even if they have to take on all the money, they'll get something, which is better than nothing.

As far as Cowart, you're right, it probably wouldn't be him, per se, but it's not going to be someone much better in any return. It'd likely be some 25-26 reliever in High-A or AA that has almost no upside. No one, I repeat literally zero MLB teams are going to give anything of value for James Shields. It's laughable you think the White Sox would laugh at any offer. At this point, they listen to any one not trolling them.

17.) 26 Dec 2017 23:50:40
But there is no "pedestal" I stand on to claim the Shields trade was dumb. He was one of the worst pitchers in baseball when he was acquired. He wasn't fooling anyone, except maybe Williams/ Hahn.

18.) 27 Dec 2017 00:09:16
Ok, at this point we are nit-picking intricacies. The Sox were counting on Shields to return to his 2015 form with a change of scenery. Nonetheless, It was a dumb trade.

I'm sure you had been following Tatis ever since he was signed and all his games with the Sox rookie ball team. Think about how bad the Sox system was before Dec 2016 and realize that he wasn't anywhere near their top 30 prospects. A lot of guys have tremendous upside, but I had honestly never heard of Fernando Tatis Jr. before that trade and I follow the Sox system pretty closely.

Barring an injury, Shields will not be DFAd in April because they most likely won't have a replacement for him. They'll wait longer than that for Kopech.

Which would you honestly rather have, a "25-26 reliever in High-A or AA that has almost no upside, " or a veteran that can be a leader for a bunch of young, highly-touted prospects that are a year or 2 away.

19.) 27 Dec 2017 21:24:34
The White Sox won’t trade Shields.
No team in baseball would trade for Shields now.

The point is, if the White Sox laugh off anyone willing to give them anything more than a few bucks for Shields, they just confirm they are the worst front office in baseball.

If someone wants him, you move him. You can find a veteran MLB pitcher waiting for phone calls in almost every bar in America. I’m not sure I want Shields and his 5+ xFIP teaching my young pitchers.

20.) 27 Dec 2017 23:33:34
Yep, a veteran who was once of the best in the game that aged really quickly and lost his velocity can't be of any help to young pitchers. I guess Miguel Cabrera no longer knows anything about hitting after hitting .250 or Jon Lester can no longer be a mentor either after a down year.

"The point is, if the White Sox laugh off anyone willing to give them anything more than a few bucks for Shields, they just confirm they are the worst front office in baseball. "

You keep saying this and putting it in different terms and it hasn't been right since you started. The logic here is just wrong. Veteran leadership from an accomplished from a former all-star pitcher is not worth a "couple bucks" or a "26 year old RP with no upside. "

21.) 28 Dec 2017 03:48:59
James Shields didn't have a "down year". He's the worst qualified starting pitcher over the past three seasons. Lester and Cabrera had off years. This isn't an equal comparison. The two guys you mentioned have been good in recent seasons. Shields has not been.

And you're right, James Shields isn't worth "a couple bucks" or "a 26 year old RP with no upside. " If he weren't under contract, he'd likely be signed on a minor league deal, or just retire.

Again, literally zero teams will be knocking on the White Sox door for Shields. So you can keep that veteran presence.

But the idea of the White Sox "laughing" at any deal that gives value for James Shields is beyond comical. They'll trade any veteran with a heartbeat if the offer is right, it's what rebuilding teams do.

22.) 28 Dec 2017 05:26:12
The argument was about passing on knowledge from previous seasons of immense success, not Lester and Cabrera's down years being similar to Shields' career derailment. It seems like you're implying that veteran leadership is unimportant, which some people actually agree with. However, I think that's crazy, especially on a rebuilding team. Let's not forget that Shields, at one point, was a very good pitcher. Is Kopech or Hansen or Giolito going to say "James, your FIP was too high over the last 3 seasons for you to give me any pointers. " Why do you think he is still employed by the White Sox given the fact that on the mound, he sucks? You're starting to prove my point for me.

I'm not saying the Sox would laugh at a whole lot of offers for Shields, but the original one proposed where someone has to sell you on Kaleb Cowart would at least warrant a chuckle.

23.) 28 Dec 2017 07:21:19
I’m not saying it’s unimportant, I’m saying it’s overrated.

How much have guys like Mike Napoli, a notorious “veteran presence” done? Some young teams without much money on the books don’t mind throwing out a few bucks for the guy, but there’s no proof that Shields can teach more to these young pitchers than some actually good 28-year-old pitcher.

I’m sure there’s something to it. It’d be silly to suggest otherwise. It’s probably moreso that the grind is tough for young players and having old veterans can help the manager out and take some work off his shoulders. But I don’t think that makes a guy off-limits. You can find leadership in any clubhouse in baseball.



23 Dec 2017 18:54:19
pirates receive:
Joe Biagini and Teoscar Hernandez

blue jays receive:
Jose Osuna, Jordan Luplow and Dovydas Neverauskas


1.) 23 Dec 2017 22:53:55
Horrible trade for the Jays.

2.) 25 Dec 2017 03:43:28
Hell NO.



22 Dec 2017 20:52:18
Cardinals receive:
Michael Lorenzen, Brandon finnegan
(Cardinals get their desperate pitching help)

Reds receive: Harrison Bader, Miles Mikolas, Luke Voit
(reds get younger)


1.) 22 Dec 2017 22:55:00
"Cardinals need pitching" And it's not like the Reds didn't have the NL's worst ERA last year.

2.) 23 Dec 2017 01:09:43
Lorenzen- 26 y/ o (at start of season), Finnegan- 25.

Voit- 27, Mikolas-29, Bader-23

In what way do the Refs get younger?



16 Dec 2017 02:44:33
yes I'm back its been 2 years but yes I'm back.

Giants offseason too get back into it

Giants sign:
Andrew Cashner 1 year
Jason Vargas 2 year(to replace Matt Moore)
Steve Cishek 1 year
JJ hoover 1 year
Mike Aviles 1 year
Carlos Gonzalez 3 year 21 mil
Trevor Plouffe 3 year 17 mill
Nick Hundley 2 year

Giants trade:
Joe Panik, Denard Span, and Kyle Crick

Mariners trade:
Dee Gordon, Guillermo Heredia

Hunter Pence, Miguel Gomez

Jacoby Ellsbury or Aaron Hicks

Gordon 2B
Crawford SS
Parker LF
Posey C
Gonzalez RF
Belt 1B
Plouffe 3B
Hicks/Ellsbury CF


SS/2B/3B Arroyo
RF/LF Williamson
CF Gorkys Hernandez(love his name)
IF/OF Aviles
C Hundley

CL Melancon
SU Dyson
SU Strickland

*I know I have more than 25*


1.) 16 Dec 2017 17:33:28
FA singings are okay, but not all will likely happen. The trades however, are terrible. The Yankees already have Stanton and Judge, and the M's ain't dealing Gordon for Span.

2.) 16 Dec 2017 18:26:58
Let me rephrase that. The M's already have Cano, so they don't need Panik, Span is decent offensively but poor defensively, and Crick is a reliever at best.

3.) 17 Dec 2017 05:20:51
Trevor Plouffe was DFA’d twice last year. He won’t get anything more than a minors deal.



12 Nov 2016 01:16:23
okay Let's think Oakland A's making strides to a .500 season


Oakland Trades:
Jharel Cotton and Ryan Dull

Minnesota trades:
Phil Hughes*


Oakland trades:
Chad Pinder and Max Muncy

Milwaukee trades:
Scooter Gennett*

Third (and finally) .

Oakland signs free agents:

Gregor Blanco (3/ $28mil) *
Matt Joyce (1/ $18mil) *
Ryan Kalish (minors)
Cedric Hunter (minors)
Kendrys Flores (minors)
Shawn Tolleson (minors) *-steal
JJ Hoover (minors) *
Javy Guerra (minors)
*makes it on 25-man roster

CF Blanco
2B Gennett
LF Davis
1B Alonso
SS Semien
C Vogt
3B Healy
DH Nunez
RF Joyce


CF Blanco
2B Gennett
LF Davis
1B Alonso
SS Semien
C Vogt
3B Lowrie
DH Healy
RF Joyce


Cl Madson
SU Axford
SU Tolleson
LHP Doolittle
LHP Couloumbe
RHP Neal
RHP Hendricks
RHP Hoover

Jed Lowrie-2B, SS,3B/ Reanoto Nunez-3B,1B,2B
Jake Smolinski-3B, LF, RF, CF
Mark Canha-1B, LF, RF
Josh Phegley-C,1B
Danny Valencia-3B, 2B, 1B, LF, RF.


1.) 12 Nov 2016 06:25:29
This is extremely bad, for starters the FO said that they see Cotton and Montas apart of the future so I really doubt they trade Cotton. And dear god would that middle infield be the worst defensively in history, Gennett with 14 errors last season and Semien with 21 that's 35 errors between 2 players.

Blanco will not get 28M maybe 18. And Joyce 1 year for 18M? Are you insane? There is no way on earth Joyce even gets 5M a year, he was horrible.

Lastly what's the point? They're probably the second to worst team in the AL ahead of the Twins. There's no reason to spend that much money, just suck it up and lose (again) and get another high pick in 2018.

2.) 12 Nov 2016 12:41:43
I would think they should rebuild not spend and selling is the key to that.

3.) 12 Nov 2016 13:03:05
Minnesota gladly makes that deal to get out from Hughes's contact.

4.) 12 Nov 2016 13:40:47
For all your above efforts, that roster is a last place team.

5.) 12 Nov 2016 16:40:31
18mil for Joyce wow.

6.) 13 Nov 2016 13:24:48
Matt Joyce, 18 million in 1 year, clearly you don't know what you are doing.

7.) 13 Nov 2016 15:21:34
Plus trading Cotton and Dull to future pieces of the Athletics for who? Phil Hughes? The guy hasn't been good in 3 years why trade on of their best pitching prospects that could end up in the rotation this season.




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01 Dec 2016 02:31:02
What DID I SAY. Matt Joyce 2 year 18mil deal Oakland

my prediction on 11/ 3.Matt Joyce 1 year deal 18mil Oakland. Everyone ripped on me for that haha I was right.


1.) 01 Dec 2016 05:36:35
I'm pretty sure everyone ripped you because you said he would get 18 million a year.

2.) 01 Dec 2016 06:36:47
only 14.5 million off per year on your prediction.

but keep gloating.

3.) 01 Dec 2016 08:25:38
Is no one going to point out that it's not 2 years for 18? It's 2 for 11. You were so far off it's not funny you know nothing.



21 Nov 2016 04:45:50
top 20 free agent predictions:
(courtesy of mlbtraderumors. com)

yoenis cespedes-mets
justin turner-dodgers
kenley jansen-giants
trumbo-blue jays
desmond-braves (why not)
Ivan Nova-Brewers
Mark Melancon-Dodgers
Wilson Ramos-Nats
Richie Hill-Braves
jason hammel-LAD
Carlos Gomez-angels
Michael Saunders-twins
Greg Holland-Pittsburgh
Travis Wood-Giants

guys who will go to Japan:
Matt Joyce (i know what your thinking "I thought he was going to go to Oakland! ")
Eric Thames-where success is best
Colby Lewis-no job in USA, JAPAN is right
Pedro Alvarez-any one in Japan need 40 homers?
Shohei Otani-stays in japan.


1.) 21 Nov 2016 20:29:32
If you look at last years predictions from MLBTRADERUMORS. com they were awful.



20 Jan 2016 20:10:08
next offseason winning record or not
the Boston Red Sox need to back up on the end of Big Papi's career

Just like when the Miami Heat lost LeBron, the needed someone to fill his shoes
well Miami got three guys, Goran Dragic, Luol Deng, and Shabazz Napier

Boston's new tree should be, power hitter Chris Carter, power hitter Logan Morrison, and Kendrys Morales

FA for carter
FA for Morales
trade for Morrison
i don't care who they trade but make it work Boston.


1.) 20 Jan 2016 23:40:18
Logan Morrison is a power hitter? since when?

2.) 21 Jan 2016 02:54:22




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16 Dec 2017 08:06:52
why tyler skaggs hasn't he had 2 tommy johns.




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16 Dec 2017 02:47:39
unbelievable bc of white sox trying to get jones.




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09 Dec 2016 01:17:19
this is pretty good I think.




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09 Dec 2016 01:16:30
I love the 1st trade.




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09 Dec 2016 01:16:14
David Robertson trade won't work. to much going to Chicago and giants don't need another closer.





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