20 Dec 2022 21:10:03
Pretty funny to see the whole Correa physical issue transpire - all of the rumors that Zaidi wasn't on board with the signing, but the Johnsons demanded it and did most of the negotiating with Boras. Now Zaidi's staff is leaking details about the failed physical - a mess.

Almost like Farhan is beholden to his owner(s) just like every other front office executive across the league.

Maybe he should just "be a man" and "earn respect" as a GM - at least that's what Natedog would tell him.

1.) 21 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 13:11:04
Wow! You know so much about a story that neither party has said ANYTHING about publicly! Please, enlighten us about your sources.

All we know is the Giants "flagged" a medical concern and Boras/ Correa didn't like it and went to the Mets. We don't know what the Giants said or who said it. We just know it was a medical issue.

And again, we're not even sure if the Giants were actually the party to back out completely.

Please, enlighten us on things literally none of the major reporters or local Giants reporters have said!

You're trying to make something up. Sad, sad look.

2.) 21 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 13:14:29
And if you think walking away from a player regarding a medical issue is the same as being on board with hiring a manager with MULTIPLE DUI ARRESTS, who ultimately eroded the morale of his own clubhouse which led to him "resigning" (read: fancy word for agreeing to be fired) midseason when his team couldn't even squeak out a playoff spot in one of the worst divisions top-to-bottom in baseball history.

if you think that's the same thing, then you're a deeply unserious person, not that we didn't already know that.

The Giants may have backed out of their largest FA deal ever due to a medical issue. At least they didn't hire a morally-deficient individual as a manager.

3.) 21 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 15:52:23
Just a brutal offseason for the Giants faithful so far. You go from getting "Arson Judge" & Carlos Correa to Mitch Haniger & probably like Jean Segura or something. Oof! Hate to see it.

4.) 21 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 18:05:54
Literally every indication is that the Giants ownership was the one that backed out from the deal, not the front office.

Seriously, you're just gonna pretend you didn't make something up, didn't you?

5.) 21 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 18:08:06
"Just a brutal offseason for the Giants faithful so far. You go from getting "Arson Judge" & Carlos Correa to Mitch Haniger & probably like Jean Segura or something. "

You're right, it could be worse. They could sign Andrew Benintendi to a $75M contract (LMAOOOOO) and Mike Clevinger, and probably trade their best reliever to make sure they can afford those moves.

6.) 21 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 19:49:41
Imagine signing Andrew Benintendi to a $75M deal and thinking someone else had a bad offseason.

He has no power, no speed, plays average defense, and when the .356 BABIP wears off (as it already did in his stint in NY), the White Sox are left with a more expensive version of Adam Engel.

I probably wouldn't go trashing anyone else's offseason LOL.

7.) 21 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 21:11:02
You trash Clevinger like the Giants didn't just commit more money to Sean Manaea who had a worse xRV than Clevinger in 2022.

You trash Benintendi like the Giants didn't just give Mitch Haniger, a guy that averaged 106 games per season with Seattle, an AAV that's only 500k less than Benintendi. Now he has to run around Oracle Park's outfield and not Seattle? Good luck with that.

The Giants had the worst defensive outfield in baseball in 2022 and yet are going to run with a Wade/ Yaz/ Haniger alignment in 2023. That's not very smart. Your projected leadoff hitter is Thairo Estrada and 5 hitter is literally Wilmer Flores (LMAOOOO) . Your bullpen ranks among the worst of any semi-serious contenders. Your best position player is a platooned DH. Your team lacks any kind of core. Seriously dude, save it.

This offseason has turned out to be an absolute disaster for the Giants, both for the 2023 and the future, and you're in denial. The Dbacks legitimately have much better future outlook than the Giants - you could be in danger of 4th place in 2023.

And here I was going to prove my point that it was Crawford moving to 3B and not Correa, and now Correa isn't even on the team.

That's actually hilarious.

8.) 22 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 22:40:55
"You trash Benintendi like the Giants didn't just give Mitch Haniger, a guy that averaged 106 games per season with Seattle, an AAV that's only 500k less than Benintendi"

I mean, this argument would make sense if Benintendi was the same type of hitter as Haniger. He's not.

The Giants didn't sign Haniger because he's a defensive wizard. They signed him because he hit 39 HR in 2021, and had a freak injury that cost him a lot of 2022.

The White Sox signed the weak-hitting, slow-footed, average defender in Benintendi because. well, I'm not sure why. They paid him the same AAV, but guaranteed him 32M more.

The Giants actually improved their outfield with Haniger. The White Sox got FAR WORSE, as they move Andrew Vaughn, who had a NEGATIVE fWAR in 2022 to a position with a greater positional hit on WAR.

9.) 22 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 22:51:02
"your projected leadoff hitter is Thairo Estrada and 5 hitter is literally Wilmer Flores (LMAOOOO) . "

Estrada in 2022:
106 wRC+, 14 HR, 21 SB. .722 OPS

White Sox leadoff hitter in 2022 (Anderson)
110 wRC+, 6 HR, 13 SB, .734 OPS

It's hardly that much worse than the White Sox LMAO.

Now, let's address Flores as the #5 hitter:

Flores in 2022:
103 wRC+, 19 HR, 71 RBI, .710 OPS

How about the current White Sox projected #5 hitter?
76 wRC+, 12 HR, 51 RBI, .626 OPS

That's Yoan Moncada.

Yes, your current projected #5 hitter hit LITERALLY HIT 76 wRC+ in 2022. That was tied for the 12th worst hitter (min. 400 PAs) in baseball last year.

It's hilarious that you didn't even bother looking this up before you posted it LOL.

10.) 22 Dec 2022
21 Dec 2022 23:03:46
Guys Thairo Estrada had a higher fWAR in 2022 than (he had 2.7 fWAR)

-Luis Robert (2.1)
-Tim Anderson (2.0)
-Eloy Jimenez (1.7)
-Yoan Moncada (0.9)
-Andrew Vaughn (-0.4)
-Yasmani Grandal (-0.4)
-Gavin Sheets (0.1)
-Romy Gonzalez (0.0)

The ONLY current starter for Chicago with a higher fWAR was Andrew Benintendi. His fWAR was 2.8, or 0.1 higher than Estrada's.

Mike Yastrzemski (2.2), Austin Slater (2.1) and Joc Pederson all fit the same bill. They all had higher fWARs than 8 of the White Sox' current projected starters last year.

And for what it's worth, Estrada's 2022 fWAR is higher than everyone's 2023 ZiPS projections except one: Robert (whose is 2.8 LOL) .

Seriously, you can't make this up.

It's yet again a cosmic tale of Chi Sox thinking he was doing something but couldn't be bothered to actually look up the stats.

11.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 01:00:15
Why don't you guys just get along. Lol.

12.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 05:53:54
"Guys Thairo Estrada had a higher fWAR in 2022 than (he had 2.7 fWAR)

-Luis Robert (2.1)
-Tim Anderson (2.0)
-Eloy Jimenez (1.7)
-Yoan Moncada (0.9)
-Andrew Vaughn (-0.4)
-Yasmani Grandal (-0.4)
-Gavin Sheets (0.1)
-Romy Gonzalez (0.0)"

Robert - Injured
Anderson - Injured
Jimenez - Injured
Moncada - Injured
Vaughn - Playing terribly out of position
Grandal - Injured

Yeah, let's just ignore blatantly obvious context.

It's funny because Flores had 170 more PAs than Moncada and Moncada literally had a 76 wRC+ and yet Flores was only a half-win better than him in 2023. It's no shock that Moncada is projected to be a full win better in 2023.

Speaking of projections, lets look at the 2 rosters currently with FanGraphs' DC.

Giants:
Lineup starting 9 - 15.7
Rotation - 11.2
Bullpen - 1.6
TOTAL = 28.5 fWAR

White Sox:
Lineup starting 9 - 22
Rotation - 10.5
Bullpen - 4.7
Total = 37.2 fWAR

Let's not act like the Giants' roster is anywhere near the White Sox right now.

On second thought, I'm not surprised you really like Estrada. You pretty much have to because his projected 2.6 wins are the most of any hitter and the third most on THE ENTIRE CLUB. LOLOLOL!

"The Giants actually improved their outfield with Haniger. The White Sox got FAR WORSE, as they move Andrew Vaughn, who had a NEGATIVE fWAR in 2022 to a position with a greater positional hit on WAR. "

So by moving one of the worst outfielders in baseball in 2022 to his natural 1B position, you're arguing that the club is actually WORSE off due to the positional adjustments of WAR? Boy, you really have an egregious lack of understanding here of how WAR works.

Vaughn moving to 1B is why he's projected for 2.4 fWAR now & will be much more valuable in 2023.

"The White Sox signed the weak-hitting, slow-footed, average defender in Benintendi because. well, I'm not sure why. They paid him the same AAV, but guaranteed him 32M more. "

So the White got the guy with the better glove (0 OAA vs -5 OAA in '21/ '22), better speed (55th %ile sprint speed vs 39th) and better bat (122 wRC+ vs 113), so it makes sense that the Sox would pay more in total for Benintendi than Haniger.

If Benintendi is a "weak-hitting, slow-footed, average defender", then that's not good news for Haniger and the Giants.

The Correa news has you all messed up it appears.

13.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 13:14:36
Any coincidence you've shifted to DC projections all of a sudden and not ZiPS, as you've relentlessly used in the past?

It couldn't be that multiple of your precious wittle White Sox players have nearly a full win's worth of better projections, could it?

Also, for someone demanding context and consideration of injuries, your Benintendi to Haniger comparison is laughable. Haniger was injured for a good portion of '22 (or do we not get to consider that, since he's not a member of the red-headed step child Chicago team? ) . So let's go back to his 2021 numbers:

Haniger in '21- 121 wRC+, 122 OPS+
Benintendi in '22- 122 wRC+, 120 OPS+

Now, Benintendi's numbers are based on a CAREER HIGH BABIP. One that will almost undoubtedly come back to earth. We already saw the regression take place with the Yankees, where his BABIP dropped 63 (! ) points in just a matter of months.

14.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 13:39:50
"If Benintendi is a "weak-hitting, slow-footed, average defender", then that's not good news for Haniger and the Giants. "

"So the White got the guy with the better glove (0 OAA vs -5 OAA in '21/ '22), better speed (55th %ile sprint speed vs 39th) and better bat (122 wRC+ vs 113), so it makes sense that the Sox would pay more in total for Benintendi than Haniger. "

It's hilarious how you used Statcast metrics until it got to the bat LMAOOOOO. Gee, I wonder why? (BTW, this theme is no longer interesting or fun, it's actually a really pathetic look on you) .

Aside from plate discipline, Andrew Benintendi is hardly in the same league as Haniger, offensively.

Statcast metrics from 22 & 21, respectively (last healthy season for both)

Barrel- AB 25 vs. MH 82.
HartHit- 43 vs. 73
xwOBA- 70 vs. 74
xSLG- 55 vs. 81
Chase- 84 vs. 38
xBA- 86 vs. 65

Benintendi offers one thing: plate discipline, and even that wasn't even remotely consistent over his best offensive season he's ever had. His K-rate rose by a full 6% when he went to New York (it's almost as if playing better competition makes you worse! ) He whiffed quite a bit more, and his outside contact% dropped by 20% (that's insane) while his outsize swing rate increased.

So the one thing that Benintendi offers over Haniger, we're not even sure if it'll hold up.

His 84th percentile chase rate in 2022 was just 30th in 2021. His 74th percentile walk rate in '22 was 18th in 2021.

Benintendi offers better defense. (The Giants didn't sign Haniger for his defense) . He probably offer better baserunner, albeit not much. But if you think the bat is better, you're lying to yourself.

Then again, you've consistently insisted that BABIP regression isn't a thing on this site (Avisail Garcia, Yoan Moncada), and each time I've said it, I've been dead on accurate.

Andrew Benintendi will be a sub-100 wRC+ hitter in 2023. Mark my words. He's the White Sox's next Dallas Keuchel.

And want another prediction? Thairo Estrada will finish 2023 with a higher fWAR than every White Sox hitter. Literally all of them. He'll be better. Wait and see.

In the meantime, keep ignoring those ZiPS projections. Hilarious that you don't reference them anymore.

15.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 14:11:14
Finally:

"You trash Clevinger like the Giants didn't just commit more money to Sean Manaea who had a worse xRV than Clevinger in 2022."

You love to limit your look to one stat, and it's absolutely precious. It's almost like you're trying to find one stat to prove your point and ignore all the ones that hurt your point. But you would NEVER do that would you? (Narrator: He ALWAYS does that)

For what it's worth, there isn't even an immediately available public leaderboard for xRV, or at least not one that is readily available through multiple pages of Google searching. (Hint: there's a reason none of those sites are using xRV)

And beyond the stats, let's address this point: over the past 3 seasons, with the new pitching team for the Giants, they've helped improve the careers of countless pitchers: Kevin Gausman, Anthony DeSclafani, Alex Wood, Tyler Anderson, Drew Smyly.

They fixed Logan Webb, by ditching his FB and turning him into a sinker-baller. Who else was a sinker-baller? Alex Cobb, who they turned a sinker that was typically +5 OAA into a -5 OAA pitch overnight.

Alex Wood, also a sinker-baller. His sinker went from +1 OAA with the Dodgers to -13 OAA with the Giants the next season.

Anthony DeSclafani. His sinker went from +4 OAA to -8 overnight.

So Sean Manaea, who throws his sinker 61% of the time, you don't think that same pitching staff can fix that?

It sure would be great if you at least, I don't know, TRIED to pretend you had any idea what you were talking about.

16.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 16:17:58
"Any coincidence you've shifted to DC projections all of a sudden and not ZiPS, as you've relentlessly used in the past? "

Here's the definition of DC projections for you: "FanGraphs Depth Chart projections are a combination of ZiPS and Steamer projections with playing time allocated by our staff. "

I'm really not sure how you can question whether Benintendi's plate discipline (which ironically is super sticky YOY) will "hold up", when Haniger literally averaged 106 games per season with Seattle. You should be questioning whether Haniger in general will hold up.

"[Benintendi] probably offer better baserunner, albeit not much"

Well, you see, we can quantify these things too. Benintendi's career BsR is 9.2. Haniger? -4.8. That's a considerable difference.

The Giants didn't sign Haniger for his defense, but they probably should have targeted a better defender. It's really hard to win games with a terrible outfield defense (as the Sox & Giants showed) . The Sox dropped Pollock, Vaughn and Sheets from the OF and will have Colas and Benintendi out there in 2023, but the Giants, in their much bigger park, will still have below average defenders at the corners. Bold strategy.

"For what it's worth, there isn't even an immediately available public leaderboard for xRV, or at least not one that is readily available through multiple pages of Google searching. (Hint: there's a reason none of those sites are using xRV) "

Check out PitchingBot. xRV is a better descriptive & predictive pitching metric than FIP, SIERA, xFIP etc., but likely won't land on the mainstream sites being AI-based. It might still be a bit much for you given your elementary-level advanced metric understanding, however. OAA and WAR have been kicking your behind recently.

You point out what the Giants have done for sinker guys - it's all true. But yet you bash the White Sox for a Clevinger signing like Ethan Katz hasn't fixed guys like Giolito, Rodon, Lopez, etc. in his short tenure with the club. It apparently only makes sense for the Giants to buy low on a guy, not any other team.

Your "mark my words" proclamations on this site usually turn out to be pretty laughable, and you're setting yourself up for more this offseason.

17.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 18:57:07
"But yet you bash the White Sox for a Clevinger signing like Ethan Katz hasn't fixed guys like Giolito, Rodon, Lopez, etc. in his short tenure with the club. "

Lucas Giolito had a 4.90 ERA and a 4.06 FIP in 2022, Ethan Katz' second year with the club. It was his worst season, objectively, since 2019. Man, what a job "fixing" him up LMAOOOO.

And to make the situation with Giolito worse, Katz was his HS coach! LOL.

Can the White Sox fix Mike Clevinger? I mean, sure, it's always possible. But there's a much greater chance, and recent track record of the Giants being a place that restore sinker-ballers. It's pretty well documented they've done this, and for someone pretending to be as "analytically minded" as yourself (we all know it's an act, but I digress), one would think you've picked up on this.

As far as xRV goes, I found the site.

And for a "better pitching metric than FIP, SIERA, xFIP etc. ", I find this funny:

Verlander Overall xRV/ 100: -0.1
Kaleb Ort: -0.15

Ort, mind you, had a 4.84 FIP, 5.15 xFIP, 4.49 SIERA.

Verlander, who won the Cy Young, had a 2.49 FIP, 3.23 xFIP, 3.09 SIERA.

Ort had a lesser K-BB% (9.0 vs. 23.4) and worse statcast metrics.

I have a hunch why none of the major publications even *reference* xRV, and it's not because it's, as you say, "AI-based. "

18.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 20:21:17
"And to make the situation with Giolito worse, Katz was his HS coach! LOL. "

It's public knowledge that Giolito worked with Katz prior his breakout-2019. It was a considerable factor in him landing the pitching coach job.

Lol, you want to use a single pitcher comparison to render xRV useless. Ort had almost 12 K/ 9 and a 2.70 FIP in AAA. He's got really intriguing stuff. xRV would say that Ort is a potential breakout candidate.

And careful which random relievers you reference tho. Remember how you bashed K-BB% (and lookie there, you're now using it) and used Hoby Milner, Scott Effross and Jason Adam as your evidence, only for those 3 guys all to enjoy breakout campaigns? LMAOOOO

"I have a hunch why none of the major publications even *reference* xRV, and it's not because it's, as you say, "AI-based. ""

Would you call The Athletic a "major publication"? Because Eno Sarris references it all the time. Trust me, pitch quality metrics are what front offices use to evaluate and target pitchers, not the mainstream stats like, your personal favorite, xFIP.

19.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 20:32:42
And there we have it.

Passan just reported that it was, in fact, as I said, Zaidi that "expressed trepidation over results of the standard medical analysis of Correa", and it was literally over an 8-year old injury. He either got cold feet about the money commitment, or was never on board and used this a a cop-out to ownership. Just an embarrassing turn of events for Zaidi & the organization in general.

20.) 22 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 22:34:47
Literally every bit of local reporting for the Giants is pointing that Charles Johnson wanted out. It was Farhan Zaidi who did what he was told and tried to renegotiate. Boras and Correa didn't want to renegotiate. (And the whole 12 hours of radio silence bit was a total lie, for what it's worth. Boras didn't answer the phone. )

It should also be pointed out the the Giants Medical Staff is widely considered one of the best (the White Sox is also very well respected) . If the Giants medical staff alerts the front office to something, it's probably not nothing.

There are countless videos of Correa lifting weights that would make even the scrawniest weaksauce like Chi Sox cringe at watching it. I don't know how he doesn't break his back or ankles.

Then there's the throwing, his ankles damn-near buckle each time he throws. Just watch him. If the ankle injury didn't have an impact, he's legitimately not going to be able to do this for 6-7 more years.

It's also not nothing that the Houston Astros weren't willing to re-sign him, and that the BEST deal he got last winter was a 3-year deal from the Twins (who are one of the worst medical teams in not just baseball, but all of professional sports, along with the Mets, coincidentally) .

Moral of the story: the Giants likely dodged a huge bullet with Correa. Does it kinda stink? Yeah. Would he help immediately? Also yes. But you're acting like the Giants franchise is over because of it.

Then again, no one has or ever will accuse you of making reasonable takes.

21.) 23 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 22:53:23
Was it a bad look? Of course it was. The optics aren't great.

But you know, it could be worse. They could have tried to bury a second-offense DUI arrest of a managerial hire!

22.) 23 Dec 2022
22 Dec 2022 23:14:36
Lastly, consider some other pressing details for the Giants:

-The Giants took a flyer on a 3-year deal with Anthony DeSclafani, who had a previous ankle injury and he sat out most of 2022 with, wanna guess?, an ankle injury.

-Tommy La Stella, who was a 3-year deal, sat out for most of 2022 with an achilles injury, which is recurring from an old injury.

The Giants have been known to take risks on injury-prone players. They signed Rodon, they brought Belt on a qualifying offer (Belt played in just 78 games in 2022).

That was over $30M worth of risks they took, and ultimately lost, from just 2022. They are already taking a $43M gamble on Mitch Haniger.

If something came up about a previous injury for a 13-year, $350M deal that changes the projection tables, do you blame the Giants for reneging? Their 2022 season was marred by previous injuries/ surgeries that reappeared for their players.

The White Sox probably would share similar concerns (although we know the White Sox don't swim in the expensive player waters) if nothing due to the amount of injuries they've had to work through.

Correa isn't exactly known for being super healthy, either.

23.) 23 Dec 2022
23 Dec 2022 15:44:17
Well at least now they've reinvested most of the 2023 Correa money into a staple of health - Michael Conforto.

24.) 23 Dec 2022
23 Dec 2022 16:42:27
Yes, how dare they sign him to a 13-year deal worth $350M.

Oh wait, it was for two years, $36M? Imagine thinking those are remotely the same risk.

I'm sure you have some made up, cherry-picked stat to give the room, though?

25.) 23 Dec 2022
23 Dec 2022 16:50:07
And look man, I get it, you're bummed that the White Sox only added Benintendi and Clevinger. And to think, they spent $87M on those deals.

Again, they'll likely be offloading a good player to save money so they can afford that 87M.

So yeah, I understand your desire to trash other teams' moves, but imagine looking at the White Sox offseason and thinking the Giants are in a bad spot. The White Sox actually got worse LMAO.

26.) 29 Dec 2022
29 Dec 2022 14:31:08
Regarding the original comment about Zaidi versus Hahn, it's comical you can't see the difference between a GM possibly having different feelings about a marquee FA than his ownership and, I don't know, willingly hiring a multiple-DUI offender and just going along with it.

That you can't tell the difference says a lot about you.

27.) 29 Dec 2022
29 Dec 2022 17:45:58
My guy, you legitimately made the argument that pre-arb extensions that both parties willingly agree to were racist, and root for a team and promote a GM who not only just botched on of their biggest FA acquisitions in team history, but willingly works under a QAnon-donanting owner.

You can talk about TLR (a manager who has since been fired) and his DUI (a terrible act), but it doesn't really compare.

In spite of their wildly disappointing 2022 season, White Sox literally won the Selig award for philanthropic excellence due to their Amateur City Elite (ACE) baseball program for inner-city minorities - almost all of which being black youths. Life-changing stuff.

The Giants owner and primary shareholder writes checks to the alt-right, and it's no surprise that their ENTIRE projected major league roster consists of 5 minority players.

28.) 29 Dec 2022
29 Dec 2022 22:54:17
"The Giants owner and primary shareholder writes checks to the alt-right, and it's no surprise that their ENTIRE projected major league roster consists of 5 minority players. "

Yes, let's break down the "alt-right" decisions from the Giants:

-They hired a Muslim as their President of Baseball Operations

-They hired a very outspoken progressive democrat who very publicly boycotted the National Anthem in 2022. A true alt-right team would have fired him.

-Not only did they not fire Gabe Kapler for this, when Sam Coonrod spoke out against kneeling for the Anthem, they traded him to Philadelphia.

-They offered the largest contract in team history to a Latino player (before medicals forced them to back out, as is the case with the Mets, it seems) .

-They cut all ties from Aubrey Huff over alt-right commentary, and went so far as not inviting him to the World Series reunion.

-They employ a black, female PA announcer (the first full-time black, female PA announcer in baseball history) .

If the Giants' principal owner (Charles Johnson, age 89) who handed over control and chairman duties to his son, Greg, nearly a decade ago, is seeking to make the Giants an alt-right team, he's as successful as a Rick Hahn team in the playoffs.

And to think, you thought you were doing something here LMAO.

29.) 29 Dec 2022
29 Dec 2022 22:56:55
My apologies, Renel Brooks-Moon was the SECOND full-time black, female PA announcer.

The first was Sherry Davis who was employed by the San Francisco Giants.

Charles Johnson is cutting checks to black women, Muslim men and outspoken progressives. Meanwhile, his team is disinviting Aubrey Huff and Sam Coonrod.

Such alt-right activity taking place!

30.) 29 Dec 2022
29 Dec 2022 23:30:49
One last bit, just to help prove your clown take wrong:

The Giants' PUBLIC statement on Charles Johnson's donations:

"he Giants' reputation as one of the most inclusive and socially engaged professional sports teams in the nation speaks for itself. We are unaware of Mr. Johnson's political donations because they are entirely separate from his stake in the Giants ownership group. In no way do the Giants condone this disturbing and divisive political activity. "

Take extra note of that last bit: "disturbing and divisive".

Man, even Charles' own team (which he doesn't have any day-to-day decision making power and hasn't since 2013) spoke out against him.

Meanwhile, there were a grand total of ZERO (0) public comments from the White Sox regarding the deplorable and despicable decision to hire TLR a day after getting arrested for his second DUI. No discipline. No criticism from the club. Nothing except full acceptance from everyone in the front office.

Again, you trying to tear down the Giants to dismiss the absolute deplorableness of what Reinsdorf did is not surprising. It'd just be a good idea if it were remotely grounded in reality.

31.) 30 Dec 2022
30 Dec 2022 22:50:46
Don't overthink it.

The primary shareholder of the San Francisco Giants supports QAnon and you continue to promote the business that he owns.

I support the team whose manager (a single employee) was arrested for a DUI and has since been fired.

32.) 31 Dec 2022
31 Dec 2022 02:55:52
"Primary shareholder"

Look, I know your brain is rotted by a pathetic excuse of an owner who micromanages his baseball team by overruling his front office and hiring a drunk as a manager, but most teams allow their front office to do the work and have little involvement in the day-to-day operations of the team.

The Johnson family, namely GREG, not senile Charlie, steps in when it's time to sign big fish. Otherwise, they leave the decisions to Zaidi, who often refers to Larry Baer when it comes to needing ownership input.

I'm really sorry that what you were hoping was true isn't true.

You really tried to suggest the Giants operate their team by Charles Johnson's politics. and it's easily the worst take we've ever seen on this site. EASILY.

33.) 31 Dec 2022
31 Dec 2022 04:23:00
"a pathetic excuse of an owner who micromanages his baseball team by overruling his front office and hiring a drunk as a manager, but most teams allow their front office to do the work and have little involvement in the day-to-day operations of the team. "

Buddy, you are preaching to the choir here.

Is Charles Johnson not the primary shareholder of the San Francisco Giants? Did he not donate to QAnon? Do you not support the Giants org? Did the White Sox not get rid of Tony La Russa?

What am I missing here? But my "brain is rotted"?

34.) 31 Dec 2022
31 Dec 2022 05:15:58
Primary shareholder doesn't mean "makes all the decisions"

I don't know why you think that's what it means, but it's pretty clear that Charles Johnson isn't making decisions, as the "alt-right" stuff isn't as apparent as you wish.

You seem very passionate and desirous that the Giants would hire and sign MAGA/ QAnon folks. In fact, you're the only one who brings this up. I'm really sorry, for your sake, that this isn't the case.

Wanna share any deep, repressed political leanings with the group?

(And no, donating to a political candidate, even ones you and I reasonably disagree with, is not worse than knowingly hiring a guy coming off his SECOND DUI arrest. Not even remotely. That you can't understand this is deeply concerning. )

35.) 31 Dec 2022
31 Dec 2022 05:57:04
Jerry Reinsdorf also has questionable political contributions. No surprise Chi Sox doesn't address these.

According to OpenSecrets:

$2,800 to election denier Kelly Loeffler

$11,200 to election denier, anti-LGBTQ, MAGA David Perdue

$2,900 to election denier, QAnon candidate Jeremy Shaffer

$2,900 to anti-ADA, anti-LGBTQ Mark Brnovich

$5,600 to anti-LGBTQ, anti-woman Todd Young

Donations to Joni Ernst, Mike Bost, Don Bacon, Mike Gallagher, Dan Meuser. The list goes on and on and on. Election deniers. MAGA candidates. Anti-LGBTQ, anti-women, anti-labor candidates. Reinsdorf donated a lot of money to these individuals.

Normally, I don't care. Rich owners are notoriously Republican. I gave up on caring a long time ago, but I find it hilarious you didn't even bother looking at who Jerry Reinsdorf has donated to, since 2020. I didn't even go beyond that, because I didn't need to.

His house isn't clean, either. At least Charles Johnson asked for (and received) his donations back.

36.) 01 Jan 2023
01 Jan 2023 18:08:05
Donating directly to QAnon vs. Conservative politicians is not the same, for the record. There's a reason why there are multiple stories about Johnson's actions and not these donations from Reinsdorf. If it were a big deal, the Chicago media would be all over it, trust me. Like you said, Reinsdorf's actions are not atypical.

Remember - the only reason why politics are being discussed on this forum is because in response to my claim that Rick Hahn has done a nice job of building a core of good, young players, (something that Zaidi has yet to do, but is desperately trying to do) you said that he and Alex Anthopoulos were actually racist human beings for signing minority players to pre-arb extensions. One of the most ridiculous sports takes I have ever heard - probably something you read from Vox or the New York times that you were eager to share.

I called that awfully ironic for a fan of a team whose primary owner is a QAnon donator. And now you have to try and "well actually" your way out the fact that Johnson owns the team by referencing decision-making duties, as if that alleviates him from being the primary shareholder, a role that I think you need to Google to know what that means. Whether Charles Johnson has been making decisions recently or not, the San Francisco Giants organization will do as he says if he decides he wants to do something - that's the power he has as the primary shareholder.

It's the same situation for the Chicago Bulls and Jerry's son, Michael, who's been given the day-to-day duties.

37.) 02 Jan 2023
02 Jan 2023 03:47:13
Also, you've propped up the "but TLR has been fired" nonsense several times.

1) TLR wasn't fired because of the DUI. No, quite the opposite. The White Sox hired him KNOWING about the DUI. Not a single member within their organization spoke out about it. No one. (Again, take note that the Giants made an OFFICIAL STATEMENT condemning Johnson's donations. Crazy how that works, eh? )

2) It doesn't matter that he was fired. He should have never been hired in the first place. That's the point. Even if he was fired for the DUI (again, he wasn't), why'd they hire him knowing what they knew?

Don't dodge this fact. Firing Tony La Russa because he was objectively bad at his job (and probably closed the window of contention completely shut in baseball's easiest division) doesn't absolve Reinsdorf of anything here.

He hired Tony La Russa. And you criticize Farhan Zaidi for potentially having a disagreement with his ownership (a point which has been debunked), but yet, Rick Hahn got a pass for just being a total cuck and letting Reinsdorf do whatever he wants?

And even if your take was true, don't you find it ironic that it was Farhan Zaidi who killed the deal. After all, if the ownership wanted Correa, but Farhan Zaidi called off the deal, Zaidi would have been fired. Point blank.

Crazy how Zaidi could have a disagreement with ownership (he didn't) and still be allowed to have the power and control of his team!

But yet, 2020 Sporting News Executive of the Year Runner-Up Rick Hahn couldn't possibly speak up or act against his ownership hiring TLR? Remember, Hahn's pick was A. J. Hinch. We're not exactly talking about a bastion of morally-excellent decision making here.

In recap: in your theory, Farhan Zaidi DID act against his ownership for something he didn't like. Rick Hahn didn't.

The Giants DID make an official statement condemning the actions of their owner. The White Sox did not.

This isn't an apples to apples comparison. The White Sox owner is objectively a worse person. Which makes sense, considering their team is an objectively worse team.

Seriously, run along.

38.) 02 Jan 2023
02 Jan 2023 18:10:53
"One of the most ridiculous sports takes I have ever heard - probably something you read from Vox or the New York times that you were eager to share. "

Ironic coming from the guy who examined the "whiteness" of the San Francisco Giants roster.

39.) 02 Jan 2023
02 Jan 2023 20:42:25
You're still not denying the "re-arb extensions are racist" take!

Dude!

40.) 03 Jan 2023
03 Jan 2023 16:34:57
You're still not denying the "Giants operate like an alt-right team" take!

Dude!

41.) 04 Jan 2023
03 Jan 2023 22:52:42
I simply made an observation about the Giants' owner and the composition of their current roster. You are choosing to draw conclusions that make the most sense to you.

You, on the other hand, flat out called pre-arb extensions racist.

42.) 04 Jan 2023
04 Jan 2023 20:23:12
LMAO. You didn't make a conclusion?

"it's no surprise that their ENTIRE projected major league roster consists of 5 minority players. "

I know that this isn't your thing, and that you'll never be accountable for any of the nonsense you say on this site, but that's about as ludicrous of a conclusion one can draw.

At least my take isn't remotely original.

But it's comical that you think the Giants are racist in how they hire, but that pre-arb mega-extensions aren't completely exploitative by MLB teams.

But then again, I wouldn't expect a fan of the team who kept saying Eloy Jimenez wasn't ready for the majors until one day, he signed a pre-arb extension, and then he was magically and suddenly ready! How crazy is that?

But clearly no manipulation, exploitation or malicious behavior was at play? Right? Right? Rigggghhhhttt?

But it must be a fluke. It clearly didn't happen with a second player, say, Luis Robert. Oh wait. Yikes.

The White Sox could throw a player into the ocean with a cinder block on his shoulders and you'd commend them. It's pure garbage at this point. But why am I not surprised?

43.) 05 Jan 2023
05 Jan 2023 06:18:12
See, you're now grouping service time manipulation with pre-arb extensions. They're not the same thing. You're now changing the subject. The latter is an agreement that is voluntary by both parties. Calling these extensions "exploitive" is foolish.

What's even crazier (and again, different) is what you originally said - that they were "racist". It gets confusing, then, when Austin Riley, Spencer Strider, Aaron Bummer, etc. sign pre-arb extensions - doesn't quite fit the narrative.

Neither Robert nor Jimenez's debut date was to be affected by their contract status (Andrew Vaughn was in discussions to sign an extension prior to the 2021 season and was still on the OD roster when one didn't get finalized) . Plus, in the middle of Robert & Jimenez's extensions, are they grossly underpaid? No. Robert in particular got a huge signing bonus out of Cuba - he in no way needed the money up front, compensation smoothing is just a real thing. If he or his agent felt that they were being exploited, they could have 1. just said no to the extension offers like tons of players do, or 2. if you think a front office is being unethical, that's why you have a player's union.

44.) 05 Jan 2023
05 Jan 2023 15:25:07
"See, you're now grouping service time manipulation with pre-arb extensions. "

No, I'm saying that literally anyone with a few brain cells can connect the link to the White Sox's pre-arb extensions with the service-time manipulation. The coincidental nature of Robert and Jimenez both being considered "not ready" for the Majors, and then just months after those comments were made, they sign extremely team-friendly deals and voila! they are MLB ready? Yeah, miss me with the BS.

"What's even crazier (and again, different) is what you originally said - that they were "racist". It gets confusing, then, when Austin Riley, Spencer Strider, Aaron Bummer, etc. sign pre-arb extensions - doesn't quite fit the narrative. "

TIL that racism isn't real if white people sometimes get similar treatment. Not every pre-arb extension is exploitive. Julio Rodriguez * Wander Franco got hundreds of millions. Fernando Tatis Jr. got one of the biggest contracts in American sports history.

But suggesting that many of the pre-arb extensions that have been thrown around, notably by the White Sox and Braves, aren't racist because white dudes also received them is ludicrous, and I suspect even you know this.

"Andrew Vaughn was in discussions to sign an extension prior to the 2021 season and was still on the OD roster when one didn't get finalized"

Ah yes, the White Sox will not manipulate the service time of their prized White Prospect, but will do so on for their Latino players. Thanks for playing.

"if you think a front office is being unethical, that's why you have a player's union. "

The Players Union is in an impossible spot here. What are they supposed to tell their players? Don't take the money? If they start airing the grievance against these extensions, players stop getting guaranteed money and then have to get low-balled in arbitration. There's next to no recourse for the player's union that doesn't end up hurting them. That's why these extensions are so advantageous to the teams.

The word "racist" was incendiary. Intentionally so. It's probably exaggerative, but it doesn't dismiss the fact that many Latino players have been given the option of either being lowballed in arbitration or forced to accept a less-than-market value extension. In some cases, they even are threatened with being held in the minors for longer until they sign their deals.

I'll willingly walk back the "racist" part, since you despise it so much (especially since it presents a REALLY bad look for Ricky Hahn and Reinsdorf) .

But there's no way you'll be able to walk back accusing the Giants of constructing their roster in an "alt-right" manner. None. It was literal nonsense with ZERO backing.

Again, at least my take has some evidence behind it. Yours doesn't.

You're just in a mood of making absolutely ludicrous takes about the Giants, and you do so because you're jealous of them. This much is true.