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25 Nov 2020 15:30:15
A potential added change subsequent or concurrent with Francisco Lindor being traded from the Indians...

Indians get: Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Jordan Groshans, and Adam Kloffenstein

Blue Jays get Jose Ramirez and Bradley Zimmer (as a throw in)

Discussion: Solidifies the Blue Jays infield by pushing Vlad Jr to 1B while adding a defensive fourth outfield who's primary spot is CF but can play all three spots.

Indians take a "first step" in solving one third of the worst OF in the major leagues while adding a true 3B to the minor league system (current 3B # 1 prospect, Nolan Jones, is really a 1B) &, of course, Cleveland acquires an arm that hasn't been refined to the degree it could be in the Indians pitching development & training machine.

Thoughts?.

EliKov

1.) 25 Nov 2020 16:33:44
I can't imagine the Indians are remotely interested in moving Ramirez, and if they were, it would be for a package that is 100% favor.

They'll fleece the team and hamstring their farm system for a decade. That's the only scenario in which I see them moving Jose Ramirez.


2.) 25 Nov 2020 19:10:16
Yeah I don't think this is enough for Ramirez.


3.) 25 Nov 2020 19:50:29
NOT enough for Ramirez and its a HUGE but. He has a controllable contract and the Indians would not be willing to trade him unless they are made an offer they can't refuse and this ain't that.


4.) 25 Nov 2020 20:06:35
Not a chance from the Jays. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. Is on the cusp of being an allstar And Jordan Groshans will be very good player.


5.) 26 Nov 2020 02:22:52
Baseball Trade Values numerically defines this deal at: 68.1 to 67.8 (so close that it doesn't matter) So, while JRam is huge. and Gurriel Jr might become. and Groshans is seen as the next. and. and. and. At the end of the day being today, the trade is rated about even.


6.) 26 Nov 2020 14:01:14
Wait, you think it'd be the BLUE JAYS that turn that trade down?

Whatever is in the water up north, please keep it there.


7.) 27 Nov 2020 17:39:34
Ramirez was second in the MVP Voting and has been the Tribe's most consistent offensive player. Talk about 'being on the cusp'. potential and maybes but Ramirez has produced and proven himself.


8.) 28 Nov 2020 22:21:53
When the Jays will truely be ready to win, in about 3 years, Ramirez will be a FA and won't resign with TO. Jays need Outfielders. Guriell is really starting to be a great player. The Jays don't need infielders for the rebuild, they have Groshans and Martin coming up along with Biggio and Bichette.

As much as Ramirez is the best player in the trade, it doesn't help the Jays when they are going to be ready.

Just my opinion.


9.) 29 Nov 2020 13:18:23
Have read articles that the Blue Jays are interested in Lindor which would mean an OF addition. Makes more sense than Ramirez and the Jays would add a switch hitter at the top of the line-up---and bigger might keep him off the Yankees roster.


10.) 30 Nov 2020 18:40:17
Minnow, it probably doesn't make sense for the Blue Jays to give up that return for Ramirez (although a Gurriel + Groshans return would be close to what they'd need for Lindor, in my opinion) .

But I don't think it's a remotely fair deal for the Indians to give up for a 28-year-old infielder who has been worth 20.5 wins (2020-adjusted) over the past 3 seasons. That's a value of 160M, while he was only paid 14M in that span.

Even if he destroys every ligament in his body and never plays again, and the Indians accidentally exercise his '22 and '23 options, he still provided over 110M in value.

Over the next 3 seasons, even with all of his options exercised, Ramirez is owed 35M. He only has to put up 4.4 WAR, combined in 3 seasons, or about 1.5 each season to be "worth" that contract. If he puts up only 3 WAR/ season (which would be his worst production since 2015), he's still worth 37M, which is more valuable than Gurriel, just on his own.

Ramirez's value is insane. And I don't think you even want to consider what type of deal it would take to pry him from Cleveland's cold, dead (but abjectly poor) hands.


11.) 30 Nov 2020 20:04:41
Groshans is listed as a shortstop but on the Blue Jays prospect ratings claim that he's better suited as a 3B. Have read the Tribe is interested in OF Gurriel but that would have to include more in that deal and Groshans doesn't seem to be a shortstop in MLB so if the Indians want a ss he won't be in any deal. They believe they have a ss in the near future so the Jays would have to change if they want Frankie.


 

 

26 Sep 2020 10:58:57
Let's try this a different way.. in the past, postings were agreed or disagreed based up a single posting. How about this narrative: The Indians have traded away three LEAGUE level aces over the past two seasons. Will there be a third?.

Who wants to offer what for Shane Bieber?

Yankees?.. Braves?..

B-prospects and AAAA players won't get the job done..

Thoughts?

EliKov

1.) 26 Sep 2020 22:16:01
Doesn't even rise to the level of a rumor.


2.) 05 Oct 2020 17:10:28
At this point? It'll probably require Ronald Acuna.

Which means a trade would never happen.


 

 

 

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26 Nov 2020 02:22:52
Baseball Trade Values numerically defines this deal at: 68.1 to 67.8 (so close that it doesn't matter) So, while JRam is huge. and Gurriel Jr might become. and Groshans is seen as the next. and. and. and. At the end of the day being today, the trade is rated about even.

EliKov

 

 

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24 Nov 2020 22:53:14
Overpay.

Both Kopech and Vaughn have the pedigree and skills to become major leaguers. Kopech's path is clearly all about his health. but the early information says he's going to be just fine. Vaughn has a special bat that just does incredibly well at the ML level. Getting both. makes this an overpay.

EliKov

 

 

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24 Nov 2020 18:44:33
Take one of the first two guys out of the deal to make this work. Otherwise, this is a PERFECT deal from the Tampa perspective.

EliKov

 

 

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24 Nov 2020 18:27:04
Trade # 1: An additional prospect would be needed from the SF Giants. someone like Blake Rivera who is an upside SP prospect with quite a bit of development in front of him. but, with a ceiling that says he could become something.

Trade # 2: Is a poor return for one of the best closers in MLB. Rios is a needed player and should remain as part of the deal. but, more is needed.

Trade # 3: Quantity over Quality. the CWSox would say YES to this deal almost without thinking. from the Ranger's perspective. Danny Mendick is just like six other utility guys they have. Adolfo showing he's back to being healthy is unknown. Dahlquist is so young, the Rangers won't know what they're getting. etc If the CWSox were to add someone like Jake Burger (who's blocked and will remain blocked by Yoan Moncada) . this could be a fairer deal.

Trade # 4: Benintendi needs to stay in Boston. The very poor results from 2020 *SSS, and reduced output in 2019. looks more like a salary dump than a "eureka" for the DBax. DBax should pass on this short term guy. nothing fixes this deal.

Thoughts? .

EliKov

 

 

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24 Oct 2020 15:58:40
Sort of believable. Deal # 1 and # 2 may find more of a liking if there is some switching of the same guys:

Trade #1

Indians get Miguel Andujar, Clint Frazier, Estevan Florial, and Jonathan Holder

Yankees get Francisco Lindor


Trade #2

Brewers get Luke Voit, Luis Gil, Oswaldo Perez, and Deivi Garcia

Yankees get Josh Hader

The Brewers have a stronger need for a position playing power guy (Voit) and pitching. The Indians have a stronger need for both young and MLB ready outfielders. This change facilitates these two needs.

EliKov

 

 

 

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