MLB Talk

 

Use our rumors form to send us mlb trade rumors.

(single word yields best result)

This page last updated: 00:10:38

18 Oct 2021 14:34:27
Now that both the Giants and White Sox seasons are done, let's do a recap as to where we're at.

After 3 seasons (when Zaidi started and when, supposedly, we're limited to counting Rick Hahn's success), here's where the teams stand:

White Sox: 200-183, 2 playoff wins, 1 division title.
Giants: 213-171, 2 playoff wins, 1 division title.

This, mind you, is a Giants team that had the 106-win Dodgers in their division, and a White Sox team that had legitimately zero other .500 teams in their division.

And to remind you of your own assessment: the Giants were 3-5 years away, and the White Sox were on par with the Los Angeles Dodgers.

To be honest, Chi Sox, you might be better off deleting this site from your browsing history. It's hilarious how frequently you've proven yourself wrong over the past 18 months or so.

Maybe go learn how microwaves are made, because baseball hot takes aren't your thing.

Agree2 Disagree0

19 Oct 2021 14:43:30
Finally, Chi Sox, there are seriously excellent odds that Farhan Zaidi will be the Executive of the Year, along with Kapler being NL Manager of the Year.

And just so you're clear: they did next to nothing to emulate Rick Hahn or try and match what he did. NOTHING.

And thank goodness he didn't. Otherwise, he would have dropped 8M on Adam Eaton and spinelessly let his owner hire a manager for him.

Maybe Rick Hahn can emulate Farhan Zaidi. After all, his core is only going to get older and he has legitimately baseball's worst farm system. He might need a few pointers. If he's lucky, maybe his team will even win 100+ games in a season for the first time in over 100 years.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Oct 2021 00:06:38
I can admit that I didn't see the Giants winning 107 games with career resurgences from Posey, Longoria and Crawford. Give cresit where credit is due. But then again, you didn't see this coming. We both projected them as third place finishers, as did 99% of baseball fans.

The whole organization deserves a ton of credit for doing what they did. Kapler deserves manager of the year and Zaidi deserves executive.

But as I figured, when you're throwing out someone like Camilo Doval, who was pitching in high-A just 50 innings prior, with your season on the line against the Dodgers in the postseason, it most likely isn't going to end well. There pen wasn't their ultimate issue in that series (they didn't hit enough), but it was at the end of game 5.

If the Sox had some competition from at least one other team in their division to keep that marginal value of a win on a daily basis higher than it was, they probably would have won more than the shameful 93 that they did. It would've also helped had they not had the most WAR lost from injuries in the major leagues. They otherwise probably would have been closer to 100. But again, when you effectively clinch in July, you rest guys, skip starts, etc.

You probably will see a lot of teams emulate the Giants this offseason tbh. Zaidi has turned them into one of the best orgs in baseball. Still, my point about Zaidi building a core like Hahn did still stands. Crawford, Posey, Belt, Longoria, Yaz etc. will be gone sooner rather than later. They are going to have the monetary resources to spend expeditiously in the coming offseason, but that almost always how teams SUPPLEMENT their young cores and then find success. Trying to do it the other way around is a lot more difficult.

I'll be very interested to see how they handle their flexibility.

Agree1 Disagree0

20 Oct 2021 15:00:58
"when you're throwing out someone like Camilo Doval, who was pitching in high-A just 50 innings prior, with your season on the line against the Dodgers in the postseason"

Tell me you watched ZERO Giants games without telling me you watched ZERO Giants games. It's okay, you've shown your incompetence time and time again. I expect this from you. From his addition back onto the 26-Man roster, Camilo Doval gave up exactly one run, against the Dodgers in Game 5 of the NLDS. 16.1 IP, 22 Ks, 1 ER since September 1st. He WAS the guy for the Giants, and he was dominant. I suspect he'll be a crucial part of the Giants bullpen for a long time.

"But then again, you didn't see this coming. We both projected them as third place finishers, as did 99% of baseball fans. "

Right, but I also didn't stupidly suggest that Zaidi would be contending by 2027, or that the Giants were soooo far away. There's a big difference there.

"my point about Zaidi building a core like Hahn did still stands. "

And my point about Rick Hahn doing NOTHING revolutionary still stands. He didn't "revolutionize" the pre-arb deal. He didn't revolutionize the idea of trading good veterans for good prospects. He's done nothing that anyone is trying to emulate. In fact, his team had absolutely zero depth. None. He was so spineless that his owner wouldn't listen to his input on who the manager should be. So therein lay two serious reasons why Rick Hahn's teams CONTINUE their failure to launch.

But yeah, I'm sure Farhan Zaidi is desperate to emulate a GM (not a president of baseball ops, but an inferior role) who has an abundance of young talent and just finished 14 games behind his team where the average age of starters was over 30-years-old.

My prediction: Rick Hahn emulates Farhan Zaidi, by trying to find undervalued veterans with specific skillsets to help build cheap, but meaningful depth to his team.

That's right, it stands to reason that Rick Hahn will be the emulator.

"Crawford, Posey, Belt, Longoria, Yaz etc. will be gone sooner rather than later. "

I mean, it's not like the Giants don't have Luciano, Ramos, Matos, Bart, Bishop, Toribio, etc. And even if you don't think they'll be good, keep in mind, if the Giants can turn LaMonte Wade, Jr. (who they acquired for the thrice DFA'd Shaun Anderson) into a 117 wRC+ hitter, you'd be silly to think that they can't do it with damn-near anyone.

The Giants will be a very good team for the foreseeable future. The White Sox? We'll see.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Oct 2021 15:23:23
The Giants will likely do what they did the past two seasons: find good value 1-year contracts. Think Noah Syndergaard or Andrew Heaney types. They'll do the same with a few position players. I'd imagine they flex their spending muscles with a pitcher and probably go after Kris Bryant, but even that accounts for the organization: the Giants don't have a lock-down 3B prospect out there. And they need a lot of starting pitching.

But they also have intriguing options for pitching: Hjelle, Beck, Frisbee, Plassmeyer, Dabovich, Corry, Ragsdale. And even guys who made appearances in 2021: Santos, Kervin Castro, Sam Long, etc.

The Giants gameplan is, and has been, to win games in the in-between. And they just did, to the tune of MLB's best record. They had to add DeSclafani, Wood, and re-sign Gausman last winter. They have 4 open SP spots instead of 3 this time around, but more options internally.

And the thing is, Austin, the Giants also aren't unwilling to spend money. So they can do whatever they foreseeably wish to do. Seeing what Farhan Zaidi did with this rag-tag roster, I'm not the least bit worried about the future.

They've got a huge group of young, intriguing players for 2022, and a comical depth of riches financially. And yet, their best offseason acquisition will probably be some 48 wRC+ outfielder who they turn into a star.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Oct 2021 20:58:28
The fact that he was THE guy for the Giants in their biggest game of the year simply because of a good 16-inning stretch is my point. He was their best option when the Dodgers had Treinen, Jansen and Scherzer. Again, Doval's NOT why they lost that series or even that game necessarily, but he's a big reason why they got outplayed at the end of that game.

The Sox had the most WAR lost from injuries in the entire league in 2021, still won 93 games, and yet they have no depth? I'm not sure I follow. Their farm system is objectively weak, yes, but their depth propelled them in 2021. How did your saying go? "Tell me you didn't watch the White Sox without telling me you didn't watch the White Sox. "

But for you, you might even be able to extend that to - "Tell me you don't know baseball without telling me you don't know baseball. "

Also, do me a favor and stop slightly changing the context of my words in your replies, it's very tiresome and childish. Just like I never guaranteed that Cesar Hernandez would be better than Trevor Story like you insinuated, I never said that Hahn revolutionized the GM position, lmao. I simply said that he's done a pretty damn good job. Slow down, read, and fully comprehend hat you're reading. It goes a long way as you attempt to make sound, coherent arguments.

Hahn didn't revolutionize the pre-arb deal, he just started doing it a lot more than every other team and they've all worked out really well so far. If Zaidi is smart, he'll look to extend one or more of their top prospects at an opportune time like Hahn did. Likewise, Hahn and every other GM will likely take a page out of the Giants book in 2022. That's no secret. Again, what he was able to do in 2021 was tremendously impressive and no one is arguing against that.


Also, let's look at the facts here:

Do the White Sox have a young, affordable, major league performant core currently? Yes.
Do the Giants have a young, affordable, major league performant core currently? No.
Do the Giants have a good looking farm system that COULD turn into a young affordable core? Yes.
Therefore, is Farhan Zaidi (and literally every baseball ops executive across the league) constantly attempting to do what Rick Hahn did by building a young, affordable, major league performant core? Precisely.

I don't blame you for being confident in the Giants ability to turn the group you mentioned into a solid core, but to say something like "no one is trying to emulate Hahn" is just objectively wrong. Every team is desperately trying to build a good young core - that's the first big step usually. The Sox haven't supplemented the core optimally yet, and that's been their new goal.

Your determination to not give the White Sox a lick of credit is unnecessary. You wanted them to lose so bad.

"He was so spineless that his owner wouldn't listen to his input on who the manager should be. "

I think you're confused. This isn't how organizational hierarchies work. Hahn reports to Jerry Reinsdorf and Zaidi reports to Charles Johnson. Hahn not being able to go over JR's head to hire the manager of his choice doesn't make him "spineless" lol. That's not how it works. Jerry literally owns the team. What he says, goes. He wanted to hire his buddy, TLR, so that's what happened. Hahn can't just tell his boss no, lmao. You might learn that after you graduate high school.

If Charles Johnson woke up today and after donating a couple more million to QAnon, called Zaidi and said "we're firing Kapler and hiring Buck Showalter today and that's that", guess what, Buck Showalter would be the new Giants manager tomorrow and Zaidi, like Hahn, would be left to twiddle his thumbs.

Agree0 Disagree0

20 Oct 2021 21:05:32
"My prediction: Rick Hahn emulates Farhan Zaidi, by trying to find undervalued veterans with specific skillsets to help build cheap, but meaningful depth to his team. "

OMG, stop saying that Zaidi revolutionized acquiring undervalued veterans -- he literally just read Moneyball.

See how dumb that sounds?

Agree0 Disagree0

22 Sep 2021 21:18:18
One last bit for Chi Sox, you asked if there was any correlation between success vs. .500 teams and success in the playoffs. There is.

I went from 2014-2019, and out of 24 teams who made it to the LCS in their respective leagues, just THREE (3) had losing records against .500 teams:

2015 Mets
2014 Royals
2014 Giants

Surprisingly, all 3 of these teams made it to the World Series, and one (2014 Giants) even won the Series.

But that's just 12% of the teams. From 2016-2019, there were zero of those 16 teams.

Make of that what you wish, but there is a direct, recent correlation between beating good teams in the regular season and success in the playoffs.

So the White Sox's 25-29 record against .500 teams isn't stellar.

Also, let's make something clear: the White Sox 25 wins against teams with .500 records IS THE LOWEST TOTAL IN BASEBALL.

The White Sox are a mediocre team who hasn't played anyone. And when they do play teams, they don't do very well. They currently hold a -15 run differential against those teams.

Let's check in on the "3 years from contention Giants"

They are 43-34 against .500 teams, with a +29 run differential. In other words, they are 44 runs better against good teams than the White Sox.

The Giants are an objectively better team than the Chicago White Sox.

I'll stop posting so you can read these updates through your tears.

Agree2 Disagree0

23 Sep 2021 19:30:54
It shouldn't be difficult to make the correlation, though. The only teams you're playing in the postseason are teams with winning records. So it stands to reason that success against these teams in the regular season is a good indicator of success against them in the postseason.

So, where do the White Sox and Giants rank, individually, against .500 or better teams, let's go take a looksy.

Offense-
Giants: 100 wRC+. .317 wOBA, 116 HR (ranked 3rd)
White Sox: 94 wRC+, .307 wOBA, 51 HR (ranked 12th)

Rotation-
Giants: 388.2 IP, 3.75 ERA, .303 wOBA, 3.92 FIP (ranked 6th)
White Sox: 280.1 IP, 3.50 ERA, .282 wOBA, 3.43 FIP (ranked 3rd)

Bullpen-
Giants: 1285 TBF, 3.47 ERA, .288 wOBA, 4.15 FIP (ranked 3rd)
White Sox: 837 TBF. 4.76 ERA, .334 wOBA, 4.22 FIP (ranked 26th)

The difference in innings pitched and total batters faced is hilarious. The Giants have over 400 more batters faced in this scenario, and more than 100 starting pitcher innings.

The White Sox also have the lowest total of plate appearances against .500 teams of anyone in baseball, with 1999. They simply aren't facing good baseball teams, which is probably good for them. They are really bad when they actually have to.

But hey, at least Rick Hahn was once the runner-up in Sporting News' Executive of the Year. He's got that going for him!

Agree1 Disagree0

25 Sep 2021 19:10:33
“Make of that what you wish”, ya, no chance of random variance in a sample of 24 teams, lol. I appreciate your research effort, however.

As you showed, they’re only 4 games under .500 with only a -15 run differential. They’ve played the other postseason teams very tightly. 10 of those 29 losses have been by 1-run.

If this is your evidence that there’s no way that they do anything in the postseason this year, then so be it. Others share your same sentiment.

Agree0 Disagree0

27 Sep 2021 18:10:48
Assuming the Yankees and Red Sox end up as the Wild Card teams (which seems likely at this juncture), here's how the White Sox played against the playoff teams:

10-16, -39 Run Differential. Five of those wins were by just one run, as well.

Their first round opponent has 402 record with a +12 RD against the White Sox, and that's actually hurt by a 10-1 game in which the Astros threw their 3 worst relievers on the roster.

And again, this isn't just "my evidence". It's literally not happened once since 2016. Can it happen? Sure. But if you're betting on it, your best bet is to go against the White Sox.

Based on your predictions after the trade deadline, it might benefit you to switch it up a bit.

Agree0 Disagree0

28 Sep 2021 00:19:15
LOL - "The Astros threw the worst 3 relievers on the roster"

In the 4 games the Astros won in Houston, the Sox deployed Ruiz, Burdi, Heuer, Foster, and Burr for 13 of the 15.1 relief innings.

Oh, and FYI, 4 of the losses, just like 5 of the wins against the AL postseason teams, were by one run.

Cherry picking facts per usual.

Agree1 Disagree0

22 Sep 2021 20:31:44
Also, Chi Sox. Since August 1st:

Cesar Hernandez: .264 wOBA, .591 OPS, 66 wRC+, 3 HR.

Trevor Story: .388 wOBA, .926 OPS, 131 wRC+, 10 HR.

In your own words, "Hernandez could easily be just as valuable as Story ROS."

He wasn't, and it wasn't even remotely close LOLOLOLOL.

Between that and the Craig Kimbrel statements, can we just chalk this up to you blowing smoke out of your you-know-where?

Agree0 Disagree1

25 Sep 2021 18:32:23
Process over results. I don’t believe you foreshadowed Hernandez’s struggles. Hernandez outperforming Story was a very possible outcome.

Nonetheless, it’s been disappointing.

Agree2 Disagree2

08 Oct 2021 14:02:37
"Hernandez outperforming Story was a very possible outcome. "

So was you being correct about anything over the course of this season, but that didn't happen, now did it?

Agree0 Disagree0

22 Sep 2021 20:13:45
Hey Chi Sox, can we get an update on how elite closer Craig Kimbrel is doing for the White Sox?

I'll help you out.

Since joining the White Sox, Kimbrel has 5.68 ERA, 4 HR, and an incredible 25% save percentage!

Against playoff contenders, it's, how do you say it, not great.

4.35 ERA, .305 wOBA against, 2 blown saves.

Yes, what an incredible, elite relief pitcher the White Sox acquired LMAOOOO.

Agree0 Disagree1

25 Sep 2021 18:30:03
Yep, going off of a 20 inning sample for a pitcher sure is great practice. Kimbrel clearly sucks now!

It’s a patented Natedog pre-mature victory lap.

Agree2 Disagree1

27 Sep 2021 18:18:14
After 39 games, you believed Craig Kimbrel was the next coming of Jesus Christ to the White Sox.

But after 22 games, in which he looks exactly the same as he did in 2019, it's too early to tell.

It's absolutely adorable to see you continue to spin these things into some silver lining. I mean, no one is questioning your lack of homerish devotion to the White Sox. We are, however, questioning your sanity.

Craig Kimbrel has been an unmitigated disaster for the White Sox since that trade. The fact that the White Sox have zero competition from an absolute laughingstock of a division possibly makes it easier to swallow, but yeah, if you're trying to pretend he's been good, then you're out of your mind.

Agree0 Disagree1

27 Sep 2021 23:20:10
There's a middle ground between being an "unmitigated disaster" and what he was prior to the trade.

"After 39 games, you believed Craig Kimbrel was the next coming of Jesus Christ to the White Sox. "

Really, I said it gives them an extremely valuable advantage come playoff time, and I still feel this way. Teams like the Giants have had to deploy their pen with playoff-like tendencies, the White Sox have not, because, you know, the whole marginal value of a win thing.

It's also funny, because if the roles were flipped, you'd be singing the praises of xFIP regression like no other. Surely the entire Giants Bullpen outperforming their xFIPs by a run and a half won't come back to bite them ever. Surely not!

Wait and see.

Agree1 Disagree0

08 Oct 2021 14:11:48
No, Chi Sox. See, unlike you—who has never once accepted a single argument for regression when it comes to the White Sox—not one time—I can acknowledge when regression is likely.

Wanna know why Zaidi doesn't invest a laughable amount of resources into his bullpen? Because the year-over-year volatility of relief pitching is pretty obvious. Hey, it's almost like I've said this a half-dozen times on this very website!

xFIP is a joke of a stat anyway LOL. It punishes pitchers for not giving up home runs.

But if you want to talk about FIP regression (which is statistically very real), yeah, I'm more than willing to accept it. It would be dumb of me to talk about it, and then not apply it to the Giants, simply out of fandom.

That would be something YOU do, and have done, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.

But hey, while we're talking about playoff bullpens, I guess it's good that Craig Kimbrel can't blow saves when the White Sox won't take the lead late in a playoff game. Man, that playoff bullpen of Chicago's. SO GOOD! LOL

YOU'RE SO BAD AT THIS.

Agree0 Disagree0

16 Aug 2021 14:36:28
Let's make some playoff predictions:

Playoff Teams:
AL #1- Houston
AL #2- Tampa Bay
AL #3- Chicago
AL WC- Boston
AL WC- Toronto

NL #1- San Francsico
NL #2- Milwaukee
NL #3- Philadelphia
NL WC- Los Angeles
NL WC- Cincinnati

AL WC- Boston over New York
NL WC- Los Angeles over Cincinnati

ALDS- Houston over Boston (3-1)
ALDS- Tampa Bay over Chicago (3-0)
NLDS- San Francisco over LA (3-2)
NL DS- Milwaukee over Philly (3-1)

ALCS- Tampa Bay over Houston (4-1)
NLCS- Milwaukee over San Francisco (4-3)

World Series- Tampa Bay over Milwaukee (4-2)

Awards
AL MVP- Shohei Ohtani
AL Cy Young- Lance Lynn
AL ROY- Adolis Garcia

NL MVP- Fernando Tatis, Jr.
NL Cy Young- Corbin Burnes
NL ROY- Trevor Rogers.

Agree1 Disagree5

28 Aug 2021 01:04:56
The real question is: will the AL Central winner have a better record than the 2nd Wild Card team?

As of August 27th, they have a 1 game lead on the Red Sox and are losing 6-1 to the Cubs (LOLOLOL) as I write this.

At this point, they barely have a lead over the Athletics. Seriously, the White Sox may not even have one of the top 5 records in the American league.

They are a joke. And the AL Central is a laughingstock.

Agree1 Disagree3

28 Aug 2021 17:06:39
This guy could hardly go a month without an unprompted dig at the White Sox, then it backfires.

The second wild care team will likely be fighting tooth and nail until the last day of the season. The Sox might clinch in mid-Sept. It would be nice to get a home-field ALDS, but not at the expense of lineup health or dis-aligning the rotation. Boston or Oakland could very well end up with a better record than the White Sox, but it doesn't matter. One of those teams is getting a one-game playoff, the Sox are not.

The Sox have a 4.5 game lead on the A's, who they just took 3 of 4 from. I guess that's barely, but if it is, what would you call the Giants lead on LAD?

The Giants might literally play a one and done playoff game after a 100+ win season. That would worry me.

Oh and FYI, the Sox scored 16 (! ) runs after your comment there about the game. Tough look. Their lineup, with everyone healthy, is fun to watch.

Keep the digs coming.

Agree3 Disagree0

22 Sep 2021 19:47:25
Nearly one month after my comment, here's where it stands in the American League:

TBR- 93-59
HOU- 90-61
BOS- 87-65
WHITE SOX- 85-66
TOR- 85-66
NYY- 85-67

They are another loss to the Tigers away from being outside of the Top 5 teams in their own league.

This was a team that, 9 months ago, you were comparing to the Los Angeles Dodgers LMAOOO.

This is a team that plays in, STATISTICALLY, the worst division in baseball.

Yes, your Chicago "Just As Good as the Los Angeles Dodgers" White Sox play in baseball's WORST DIVISION, and yet, they can barely squeak in the top 5 teams in their own league.

Meanwhile, the Giants, who you said were 3-4 years away, LEAD BASEBALL with the best record, all the while having the second best record in baseball also in their division. (That team is also the one you compared your White Sox to) .

I guess you can feel good about being the worst division leader that plays in the worst division in baseball.

YAY for mediocrity!

Agree0 Disagree1

25 Sep 2021 18:26:06
Man, you’re awfully concerned with the White Sox for someone who isn’t a fan. You want them to lose so bad, lol.

Why don’t you sit back and enjoy your own first place team?

The White Sox clinched their division months ago. They don’t have to fight tooth and nail to win everyday like the Giants do. It’s clearly evident in their day-to-day decision-making. San Francisco is trying to avoid their season potentially being over in a 3-hour span.

Agree7 Disagree0

16 Aug 2021 14:30:13
With a month and a half of season left, let's make some playoff predictions.

AL East- Rays
AL Central- White Sox
AL West- Astros
AL Wild Card #1- Boston
AL Wild Card #2- Yankees

NL East- Phillies
NL Central- Brewers
NL West- Giants
NL Wild Card #1- Dodgers
NL Wild Card #2- Reds

Playoffs
AL WC- Red Sox over Yankees
NL WC- Dodgers over Reds

NLDS 1v4- Giants over Dodgers in 5.
N.

Agree0 Disagree6

02 Aug 2021 19:07:25
I felt it might be prudent for Chi Sox to see some updated stats on the Ruf vs. Abreu situation. The quote from her was, "my guess is that Abreu will now start to create a gap with Ruf. He's a notorious 2nd half hitter and he'll likely be getting 4 new lineup-mates for added protection."

So, let's get a check up on those numbers, post ASG break, shall we?

Jose Abreu- 67 PAs, .182/.765 (OPS), 112 wRC+, 3 HR

Darin Ruf- 48 PA (much higher than the 2:5 ratio), .310/1.015, 171 wRC+, 3 HR



More gemzz: "my guess is that Abreu will now start to create a gap with Ruf"

Current WAR, as of August 2nd:

Abreu- 1.4 (down 0.3 since last update)
Ruf- 1.9 (up 0.5 since last update)

Odd how the "notorious 2nd Half hitter is trending downwards, despite playing all but 6 of his 25 2nd Half games against playoff caliber teams. And the "obviously worse" Darin Ruf continues to actually create a gap, despite playing 40% of his 2nd half games against the Astros and Dodgers.

Once again, how are you so bad at this???

Agree9 Disagree2

06 Aug 2021 15:58:20
Yeah Abreu hasn't looked good at the plate since the All-Star break, yet still has a 128 wRC+.

But he's clearly better then Ruf because over their last 2 games:

Abreu: 305 wRC+
Ruf: 9 wRC+

He's literally 296% better, Nate.

Agree2 Disagree4

28 Aug 2021 01:11:01
LOL. It's cute how hard you try.

Hey, how are those White Sox doing? Will they even have the 5th best record in baseball entering October?

I was confidently told, by you, that they were basically the Dodgers and the cream of the crop in the American League.

I come back to one of my common refrains to you: How on earth are you so bad at this?

Agree1 Disagree2

28 Aug 2021 17:24:56
The White Sox are looking pretty good. They've scored 27 runs in their last 2 games.

For all contending teams, no team's last 25 games mean less than the White Sox's.

Would you like to give us an update on the Abreu vs. Ruf fWAR race?

Agree3 Disagree0

22 Sep 2021 20:03:14
Jose Abreu, in 619 plate appearances- 2.9 WAR
Darin "Weak Side Platoon Player" Ruf, in 300 PAs? 2.3 WAR.

That's right, a weak side platoon player has still almost matched the reigning MVP in WAR, despite being given LESS THAN 50% of the plate appearances.

Again, one should wonder how Darin Ruf would play in 600 plate appearances. you know it'd surpass Abreu by a laughable margin.

And just as a remnder, the White Sox paid Jose Abreu 17M to get 2.9 WAR. The San Francisco Giants paid Darin Ruf 1.275 to get 2.3 WAR.

It's not even been a close call. Darin Ruf has been the better player in 2021. He was the better player, despite having less than half of Abreu's plate appearances.

I'm sorry that you, once again, made a fool of yourself in this ongoing debate. I really am.

But if you try hard enough, I'm sure you can supply yourself with some hilariously convoluted, cherry-picked argument to tell me that Jose Abreu is better because he has 100+ RBIs or something.

I'm sure you'll think of something nonsensical. You always do.

Agree0 Disagree1

25 Sep 2021 18:20:27
Classic Natedog. The goal posts shift to fit whatever narrative you’re looking for.

Remember when Ruf had a higher fWAR than Abreu for that short period of time? Your rationale was that Ruf was clearly better and all you needed as evidence was a higher fWAR. Now, as Abreu has predictably surpassed Ruf as the better overall player, your rationale has shifted to $/ WAR when comparing single-season 1 v. 1.

Ruf’s 2+ WAR as a weak side platoon piece is impressive, but he’s a bench role player on a team that has maximized his effectiveness.

Then you conveniently omit that fact that the Giants are paying Brandon Belt $16 million to just be the strong side of that platoon.

If Ruf could do what Abreu does over the same amount of PAs, why wouldn’t the Giants pay him that $2 million to do so? They could save a ton of money by not paying Belt AND acquire an additional roster spot. Spoiler alert, he wouldn’t be nearly as effective. Again, it would be like me projecting Liam Hendriks’ success over a starter’s workload of innings. It’s unrealistic.

So, by using literally the exact same logic that you used when the facts fit your narrative, Abreu is a better baseball player than Ruf due to his current superior fWAR value.

Agree6 Disagree0

30 Jul 2021 20:26:03
Nate you were spot on for KB. Giants with an absolute steal. Cubs made out really solid on Kimbrel, Rizzo, Baez but the return for KB was subpar. I was wrong about that one.

Agree5 Disagree0

31 Jul 2021 03:24:45
I was wrong about Kimbrel, for what it's worth. Someone DID offer a huge return for him.

I'd be very curious to know what other teams offered for him, and if anyone offered anywhere close to Hahn's offer.

Agree0 Disagree0

01 Aug 2021 13:59:08
Pepiot and Miller from the Dodgers was reported by multiple “insiders” as being discussed. Whether that’s what the Cubs wanted or what was actually on the table is anyone’s guess.

Agree1 Disagree0

 

MLB Talk 2


MLB Talk 3


MLB Talk 4

 
Log In or Register to post

User
Pass
Remember me

Forgot Pass