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25 Nov 2020 15:30:15
A potential added change subsequent or concurrent with Francisco Lindor being traded from the Indians...

Indians get: Lourdes Gurriel Jr., Jordan Groshans, and Adam Kloffenstein

Blue Jays get Jose Ramirez and Bradley Zimmer (as a throw in)

Discussion: Solidifies the Blue Jays infield by pushing Vlad Jr to 1B while adding a defensive fourth outfield who's primary spot is CF but can play all three spots.

Indians take a "first step" in solving one third of the worst OF in the major leagues while adding a true 3B to the minor league system (current 3B # 1 prospect, Nolan Jones, is really a 1B) &, of course, Cleveland acquires an arm that hasn't been refined to the degree it could be in the Indians pitching development & training machine.



1.) 25 Nov 2020 16:33:44
I can't imagine the Indians are remotely interested in moving Ramirez, and if they were, it would be for a package that is 100% favor.

They'll fleece the team and hamstring their farm system for a decade. That's the only scenario in which I see them moving Jose Ramirez.

2.) 25 Nov 2020 19:10:16
Yeah I don't think this is enough for Ramirez.

3.) 25 Nov 2020 19:50:29
NOT enough for Ramirez and its a HUGE but. He has a controllable contract and the Indians would not be willing to trade him unless they are made an offer they can't refuse and this ain't that.

4.) 25 Nov 2020 20:06:35
Not a chance from the Jays. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. Is on the cusp of being an allstar And Jordan Groshans will be very good player.

5.) 26 Nov 2020 02:22:52
Baseball Trade Values numerically defines this deal at: 68.1 to 67.8 (so close that it doesn't matter) So, while JRam is huge. and Gurriel Jr might become. and Groshans is seen as the next. and. and. and. At the end of the day being today, the trade is rated about even.

6.) 26 Nov 2020 14:01:14
Wait, you think it'd be the BLUE JAYS that turn that trade down?

Whatever is in the water up north, please keep it there.

7.) 27 Nov 2020 17:39:34
Ramirez was second in the MVP Voting and has been the Tribe's most consistent offensive player. Talk about 'being on the cusp'. potential and maybes but Ramirez has produced and proven himself.

8.) 28 Nov 2020 22:21:53
When the Jays will truely be ready to win, in about 3 years, Ramirez will be a FA and won't resign with TO. Jays need Outfielders. Guriell is really starting to be a great player. The Jays don't need infielders for the rebuild, they have Groshans and Martin coming up along with Biggio and Bichette.

As much as Ramirez is the best player in the trade, it doesn't help the Jays when they are going to be ready.

Just my opinion.

9.) 29 Nov 2020 13:18:23
Have read articles that the Blue Jays are interested in Lindor which would mean an OF addition. Makes more sense than Ramirez and the Jays would add a switch hitter at the top of the line-up---and bigger might keep him off the Yankees roster.

10.) 30 Nov 2020 18:40:17
Minnow, it probably doesn't make sense for the Blue Jays to give up that return for Ramirez (although a Gurriel + Groshans return would be close to what they'd need for Lindor, in my opinion) .

But I don't think it's a remotely fair deal for the Indians to give up for a 28-year-old infielder who has been worth 20.5 wins (2020-adjusted) over the past 3 seasons. That's a value of 160M, while he was only paid 14M in that span.

Even if he destroys every ligament in his body and never plays again, and the Indians accidentally exercise his '22 and '23 options, he still provided over 110M in value.

Over the next 3 seasons, even with all of his options exercised, Ramirez is owed 35M. He only has to put up 4.4 WAR, combined in 3 seasons, or about 1.5 each season to be "worth" that contract. If he puts up only 3 WAR/ season (which would be his worst production since 2015), he's still worth 37M, which is more valuable than Gurriel, just on his own.

Ramirez's value is insane. And I don't think you even want to consider what type of deal it would take to pry him from Cleveland's cold, dead (but abjectly poor) hands.

11.) 30 Nov 2020 20:04:41
Groshans is listed as a shortstop but on the Blue Jays prospect ratings claim that he's better suited as a 3B. Have read the Tribe is interested in OF Gurriel but that would have to include more in that deal and Groshans doesn't seem to be a shortstop in MLB so if the Indians want a ss he won't be in any deal. They believe they have a ss in the near future so the Jays would have to change if they want Frankie.



26 Sep 2020 10:58:57
Let's try this a different way.. in the past, postings were agreed or disagreed based up a single posting. How about this narrative: The Indians have traded away three LEAGUE level aces over the past two seasons. Will there be a third?.

Who wants to offer what for Shane Bieber?

Yankees?.. Braves?..

B-prospects and AAAA players won't get the job done..



1.) 26 Sep 2020 22:16:01
Doesn't even rise to the level of a rumor.

2.) 05 Oct 2020 17:10:28
At this point? It'll probably require Ronald Acuna.

Which means a trade would never happen.




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04 Feb 2022 13:52:49
the veteran outfielder is very much appreciated. the rest of the deal:

. two middle infielders
. a middling starting pitcher

do nothing for the Guardians. and certainly not if the Guardians are sacrificing a member of their starting staff and one of the top ten players in major league baseball.

The Guardians would pass on this deal.




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28 Oct 2021 15:05:36
The CWSox would love getting Ketel Marte. no doubt.

The rest of the deal is a mish-mash of distastefulness.

-Why would the Angels consider losing a young/ controllable SP. but would take back Old Man Keuchel? .

-The DBax are going full rebuild at this point. but would want a $ 28 MM salary from Justin Upton. Why would they want to see Amed leave and have his replacement as Sanchez?

It's a confusing deal for the DBax and Angels. but the CWSox definitely get their guy.




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29 Jan 2021 15:27:52
The Castillo portion of this posting is Dead in the water. Start with BOTH Jasson AND Gleyber. Higashi is redundant. Deivi is a tiny little guy. Gil is nothing special. Perez and Vizcaino are too far away to matter. This is just a bad deal. A Reds' star for Yankee garbage. won't make it.

The Hader deal is pretty good.

Yadi will probably retire before moving to another team. READ: He'll resign with the Red Birds.




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14 Dec 2020 21:29:08
One year committment versus NINE year committment.

Glossed over.

Un-commented on.

The Bauer single year AAV at $ 36. isn't an overpay. look at historical values of salaries.




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14 Dec 2020 14:07:02
@Nate, respectfully, disagree.

-Four plus a vesting option is not six years.

-Bauer was at $ 20+ MM for the 2020 season and is the reigning NL Cy Young winner, has a history of health, and wants a single year deal that would maximize his AAV. The stated AAV ( $ 168/ 6 = $28 MM AAV) at 20 to 30 % higher for a one year deal could be (and probably will be) $ 33.5 MM - $ 36.4 MM. Considering Gerritt Cole has a 9 year deal at $ 36 MM AAV, this is not an overpay.

-I'm not sure what Tepera or Hand has to do with these numbers. Perhaps to show the minimal number of dollars being spent on RP's?

-A 33 year old right handed middle reliever with minimal closing experience

-A 30 year old closer who's lost about four ticks on his FB.

but if it helps the narrative. by all means.

Thoughts? .





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